I brewed the “Brickyard Vienna Lager” from The Tap Brewery in Bloomington. What the brewer gave me is basically 50% pilsner, 20% Vienna and 20% Munich 1 plus 10% CaraMunich 1. Then he called for Perle to bitter to about 22 IBUs (I used Northern Brewer because I had it) and then an ounce of Saaz late in the boil. I added it at 3 minutes. I also used 838 because I had it up and running. When I first saw what amounted to a POUND of CM1 I really didn’t like the look of it. I had originally planned on making the Vienna recipe I normally make but at the last minute I decided to try this one. Maybe it will be a nice beer and not a Vienna, we’ll see. Here’s a shot of the commercial version. The color of my wort was very close to this… possibly a smidge lighter.
on a vienna lager i would follow this pretty well except no caramunich or maybe 3-4%. i used to brew with smaller amounts of munich regularly, just kind of throwing it in.
i got sensitized to melanoidins since i made a 70% munich, 30% vienna bock beer last year. it was just over the top in a melanoidiny taste, i didnt get in commercial beers. and i get freaked out about adding munich now.
point being, the 95% vienna/5% munich vienna lager i just made has a light element of that. once i get it carbonated i hope i can explain it better.
I make a very simple Vienna Lager with a grist of 88.5% Vienna malt and 11.5% Briess 60L Caramel. I shoot for ~25 IBU’s, with ~2/3 of that derived from Magnum boiled for 60 minutes, and ~1/3 derived from Mt. Hood boiled for 20 minutes. Diamond Lager (or) S-189 dry yeast. Color is ~12 SRM.
Yeah, Vienna Lager is great. I love the Devil’s Backbone Vienna. Shame they got bought out by AB Inbev…but their beer is good, so I’m not surprised.
I’ve got one on tap now that is 99% Vienna and 1% Midnight wheat. It’s pretty dark, maybe 11 SRM. I like it. I think the next one I make though I’ll maybe do 15 or 20% pilsner to lighten the toasty/bready flavor up a bit or I may drop the midnight wheat addition.
It feels like a wide-open style and there aren’t a TON of commercial examples to compare it to although that is changing. I am seeing more and more Vienna Lagers in craft brew pubs, some good and some not so much. They really range in color, grain bill and bitterness and there doesn’t seem to be one specific yeast that a Vienna should be made with. 838 and 2308 along with Bayern have been used here to make them. One of my favorite styles for sure.
I don’t consider this a “wide open style” - this is pretty set in stone. Vienna Lager gave rise to the Pilsner (and the Oktoberfest). It’s been around for a very long time.
I get that part but as far as brewer’s interpretations of it, I see a lot of variances… which I suppose is true of many styles. The commercial Vienna Lagers I have seen range from very dark and malty to much more pale with some late hoppiness. The fact that the style disappeared for awhile and then made a bit of a comeback seems like it would allow for some creativity in terms of recipe. The Vienna I made last weekend is very different from the one I typically make.
I think I see what you are getting at but I don’t consider it a style that “disappeared” necessarily. I think a Viena Lager that is “dark and malty” probably wouldn’t do very well in a BJCP sanctioned competition. Just because a bunch of breweries are spinning their versions of the style doesn’t mean they are really what anyone would recognize as a Vienna Lager. In fact, what you are speaking of really sounds more like a Bier de Garde than a Vienna Lager.
Vienna Lager never really died, BTW, it just moved to Mexico.
I agree… a brewer may call it a Vienna Lager because it contains Vienna malt. True Vienna Lager was a really big thing in central Europe and it did sort of disappear from there when Pilsner got popular. I love that German and Austrian brewers brought the style to Mexico and it still thrives today. I am down with Negra Modelo, Dos Equis Amber, Indio, Bohemia Dark, etc. I like that style. But when I went to Vienna in search of real Vienna Lager, many people had no idea what I was talking about. I would ask about it and they would say, “Oh yes, we have a lot of lager here in Vienna!”… “No, Vienna Lager. Do you know where I could get some?” and they would look at me funny. I found a place called Salm Brau in Vienna that brewed their own beer and they had a true Vienna Lager. It was dark and malty and very good. I assume that craft brewers helped to bring it back at least in some part and as homebrewers we can always tilt the recipe the way we like or make someone else’s recipe which is always fun.
ottakringer, a brewery in vienna makes a “wiener original” lager that is my ideal traditional vienna. its tasteful but designed for a session. dry but not bitter, no corniness at all.
@villagetaphouse it probably has a particular name like “dark vienna” or “dark lager”
it looks like there is a tendency to call vienna lagers as “______ rot” ein rotes lagerbier. but that also doesnt come up with an adequate answer on google.
Ottakringer makes some very good beer. I never found their version of a Vienna Lager but their helles and their “Goldfassl” was very good. The recipe I used originally for Vienna Lager (from Jamil Z.) was dark and malty and for my tastes it was a little too close to a dunkel. I was looking for a way to make them a little more distinct from each other. Using a different yeast was a good start but at some point I thought I would cut back on the carafa in the Vienna and just turn up the hops slightly. The hop schedule is almost the same… bitter to 20 IBUs or so and add an ounce of something noble for 10 minutes. It’s fun to dive into the history of it and also dissect the various ways to make it.
I am currently reading a book on Vienna by Andreas Krennmair who is Austrian. Apparently, the Vienna Anton Dreher brewed was not a dark beer. It was not a pale as Pilsner, but Anton Dreher is credited with bringing English smokeless kilning technology to Austria and Germany. After reading this book, I believe that the BJCP SRM range is way off of the mark.
Yeah anyone who has brewed a 100% Vienna basemalt beer will notice quickly how pale it is. The “Pilsner” book by Tom Acitelli is excellent and describes how pilsner evolved from the smokeless kilns used in England and the lager yeast smuggled across the German border. Great book.
I think Vienna Lager is similar in SRM to a Fest Bier, or even lighter. Darker than your standard Pils. I just brewed 10 gallons, with all Vienna malt. It is a nice golden color, a darker gold. Not red.
