From the link I posted above “Strictly speaking from an energy and ease standpoint the default 2g/gal YOS dosing is pretty hard to beat. Dose and wait 30 minutes (to 4 days!) and you are set. If you want to accelerate 2g/gal dosing, heat the kettle a bit.
If you want to cut back on yeast and sugar amount in the water, 1g/gal is a great alternative. You can wait a little longer (>1hr), or slightly heat the kettle to 35-40c (90-115F) and have very fast (<30 minute) results.”
I imagine lifting a basket/bag is not ideal. That’s why they use scavengers to address those issues.
Bamforth often cites a study that indicates some people prefer stale beer over fresh. Not sure if that’s style dependent or not.
According to what I’ve recall Jeff Rankert say, he’s found it to work well for German styles and not so much for British.
So, I’m gonna be lifting a grain basket, then sparging. It seems like those would negate the initial effort. Anybody deaerate the water, but then sparge in a AIO?
The one British ale I did LODO on came out with a malt character more like a German Alt. Not bad, but not the beer I was expecting. Maybe I should try again?
Last fall I toured Theakstons in Masham. That brewery is all original Victorian equipment except for electric motors that replaced the steam engine. Hot side aeration everywhere. They are a real ale brewery, most everything goes out in casks. Old Peculier is taken off site for the bottling process. Old Peculier on cask in Yorkshire pubs was a great beer. In bottles in the US, not so good.
British beer in the US is not so good. It might have longer shelf life in bottles if they kept O2 out, but the fresh stuff in Casks might taste different.
Pale ale malt has had the LOX denatured at the higher kilning temperatures, so some of the hot side problems aren’t as noticable. Beware a study that uses Maris Otter to compare LODO vs non LODO beers.
Some beers need some O2. Cask ale once tapped will take on a depth of flavor over a few days, then goes off. Lambo a need some micro oxygenation for the Brett to work.
Brew to style with the techniques used for that style.
Yeast/sugar seems to be straight forward and easy enough but will it affect the mash pH? I will assume if it does it would be negligible or easily corrected with acid or base.
3 kettle HERMS with recirculation pumps running for 60 minutes seems to me that would reintroduce O2 into the mash negating the deaeration.
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)
You can use antioxidants in the mash to help negate the points of oxygen ingress that are difficult or impossible to avoid. That said, if you are going to give low oxygen brewing a shot, then you will will want to employ techniques to minimize oxygen exposure such as utilizing a mash cap, not sparging, etc.
Uerige, yes, bottles are stale when they cross the throshold on the way out. You can find details of their process on the website.
I’m not sure of the others. Zum Schlüssel put in a new brewhouse in 2018 that looked to be all SS, but i don’t know their procedures. When we were there with friends the beers were not very good, then when the Sticke Warriors showed up for Sticke day, they pposted pictures of the new brewery that was just coming online. We got some duff beer as they were changing over, I think.
Every once in a while, I will do a LODO batch, but only with German styles. I used to do every batch as a LODO brew, at first using the Tri-blend of Ascorbic Acid, Sodium or Potassium MBS and Brewtan B, then after the procedure evolved I went to using pre-boiled and cooled, underletted strike water, boiled and cooled sparge water (or full volume strike water), low impact boils, etc… I always wondered about the O2 ingress from removing the grain bag in AIO, removing the immersion chiller from the chilled strike and chilled sparge water, over-stirring the mash, recirculation mash or other points where air seemed to creep into the system. I tried the YOS a few times, thinking maybe the yeast in the strike water would scavenge at least a bit of the O2 in the mash in, but then worried over the other steps in the brew day and the potential for ingress of O2 all the way around. Eventually, I just migrated away from the LODO process as an every beer routine and just try to be as mindful of the reduction of O2 as I can be without getting paranoid.
I definitely appreciate the steps that many go to make their beers stellar, but I allow myself the peace of mind even when I don’t LODO a German style.
I am not trying to stir the pot - LODO makes absolute good sense, admittedly. I have won awards brewing both ways, however. Thankfully, my beers go relatively fast once put on tap. I am nearly religious in my use of Brewtan B, so there are aspects that I retain from LODO that have improved things for me (or so I believe). I hope that adds to the dialogue here.
I don’t add any other chemicals as most lodo people do. I tried milling the grain damp, but it didn’t work too well for me. When I drain the mash off into the kettle, I fill the kettle at the very bottom without any splashing.
My opinion is that these things are easy to do and may have a good result.
I have to add campden to eliminate chloramine, so I add a bit more than needed just for the chloramine neutralization to act as an antioxidant at the end of the mash. If I didn’t deaerate the water then the campden would be used up scavenging the oxygen in the strike water and would not be available when I need it. By deaerating the water I preserve the antioxidants so I need less of them.
Sounds like just about where I’ve landed. Though I do add 1 tsp Ascorbic Acid and 1/2 tsp Brewtan B. IOW, do the stuff that’s not a PITA.
Disclaimer: Any comment I add is simply the way I brew beer. I am not paid or sponsored by anyone. There are certainly other ways that can be equally effective which other brewers may contribute. This is what I’ve found that works for me using my equipment and processes so I offer this for your consideration. YMMV
I am very happy that many fellow homebrewers decided to give low oxygen mashing a try.
The approach of doing at least the simple things is indeed sensible, and I am glad many are happy with the results.
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)