What he said. My practice is no d-rest, since I leave it on the yeast for a month. Your system sounds fine, too.
this.
then aerate and pitch your yeast. you won’t have “too much exposure to oxygen” - the yeast need lots of oxygen right after pitching - you will be fine.
I’d let it go. Yeast cleans up diacetyl, so the more it ferments the more it should reduce the d. FWIW, I pretty much always let it ferment to my expected FG, then do a d rest if needed. It seldom is.
ETA: having seen Sean and Jeff’s comments, do what they say!
Denny- i think perhaps you never needed the d-rest anyway…correct? i ask because everything i have been told or read, says you need some yeast activty to clean up D if its present (the reason for performing d-rest at about 75%)…if you wait until its done, and you do have D, is it going to clean it up?
i guess my point is - you lager correctly and dont get diacetyl.(or very small amounts) i clearly made the mistake of pitching yeast at 60F vs. 45F, and i have diacetyl present now. chances are, keeping it at lager temps until its completed, would leave me with diacetyl since my levels were higher due to error in pitching temp…no? all the more reason to do the d rest before it finishes is what im gathering from the feedback.
IME. yeah, it does clean up as long as it’s still in primary. Warming it up makes the yeast active enough to consume the d. That said, I think you got good advice from Sean and Jeff.
+1 to the above. Warm it up and let it burn out/clean up the diacetyl. You don’t have to keg it once fermentation is complete. Lager it on the cake for a few weeks if you can. It will continue to condition and the yeast will go to sleep with nice reserves so you can reuse them on your next batch.
Dave
that’s the game plan. plan on moving it back to 55F, then drop it a few degrees each day until 45F and leave it on cake for 2 weeks. then i will rack to keg for another 3 weeks at 34F.
Why stop at 45F on the cake?
For me it is always just an issue of space. One month in primary then to keg for bulk aging at colder temperatures - the kegs fit easier into the fridge that serves as my “on deck” area…and I need the space in the lager chest for the next batch going into primary.
well, my thought process is bring it down slowly since i had some diacetyl from pitching at 60F vs 45F. im in no rush, so figure i will keep the yeast doing their thing as long as possible before i crash it down to 34F for lagering.
The rest should remove all of the diacetyl in the beer. There is some debate about bringing it down gradually versus crash cooling. I prefer 5F per day. But once the beer is fermented and the D-rest is done, I like to get it straight down to 34F on the yeast for a week or two before kegging.
Dave
I hear you. Here’s my dilemma - d-rest is at about 36 hours now, gravity dropped from1.020 to 1.012. I still taste diacetyl, and just ran the test ( sample covered in hot water for 30minutes, sample covered chilled). I cooled the hot sample to same temp as chilled sample…wait for it…butter smell in the heated sample.
So I’m questioning what to do. Do I leave the beer at 65f for another few days and try test again? Not sure how long at 65f is beneficial and if it becomes negative after certain period of time. Should I be swirling the carboy periodically also, getting more yeast into play?
One can go cold and slow to reduce the Diacetyl or do a D-rest and crash. If you look at Kai’s page and scroll down, you will see that there are 6 profiles graphed out. The traditional is A, the warm D-rest and crash is F.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
For wort-hog, if you still have Diacetyl, think about Krausening your beer.
should i wait and see in a few more days at 65F, or build a 1qt starter and pitch it in? im unsure if i should krausening at current temp, or drop the lager to 50F, and do my yeast starter at about 50F and pitch it…seems to me doing a yeast starter for krausening at room temp and pitching into room temp lager would produce more diacetyl…no?
I would give it a few more days at 65F. You will not hurt the beer. If you still taste a lot of diacetyl, then maybe try Krausening. If just a little, then lager for 4-6 weeks.
Dave
would you rouse the yeast periodically over the next few days at 65F?
I typically just leave them be.
Dave
Go it. I have a suspicion i will need to proceed with krausening once i rack to the keg and before for lagering.
being new to lagers, im just frustrated that i didn’t read about pitching at 48F or so with lagers…could have prevented all this monkeying around…next time!
I just cant stand the taste of diacetyl…i’d dump it before drinking it.
If you leave it on the cake, you should be fine after an extended D-rest and lagering period. The main thing with lagers is patience, especially if you have a flaw. Everything takes longer with brewing lagers…
Dave
when you say leave it on the cake - are you suggesting i leave it in my primary for 4-6 weeks before racking to keg for additional lagering time?