Then it’s not an IPA, it’s a hoppy black ale. And jumbo shrimp are still shrimp, they are still pretty small organisms.
the best thing about beer is the only limit is your imagination!
That sounds about right to me. I use ~6 oz for a 5 gal batch. About 1 oz at 60 min (~40 IBU), .5 oz at 20, 15, 10, and 5 min, 1.5 oz at 0, and 1.5 oz dry hop. comes out to 70-80 IBU or so for typical 8-12% AA hops.
I’d question the use of oats but otherwise the recipe looks ok, maybe cut back the Crystal to 1/2 or 3/4 lb.
I use Brown malt in mine along with 15% Munich 2% Roasted and 1+% Carafa II or III
Wow, very insightful
Do you have anything else to add?
Yeah, I’m all about trying my hand a a Black IPA, or a Hoppy Black Ale, or whatever you want to call it. I’m fascinated with giving people a hard time about the name - however I wouldn’t turn down a pint, that’s for sure. ;D
One thing I will say on the topic: IMO just making the color dark is not good enough for me. I want just a touch of roast character if I am going to call it a black IPA. I think the small addition of Black or Roasted Malt/Barley is a good idea.
THIS
When I was making up the recipe I wanted dark AND roasty
I think the brown malt was key in mine as well.
so its really a Schwartzbier-IPA or is it Baltic IPA ;D ;D :
I agree with you Keith, and the Stone version has just the right amount of roastiness. I would think that a decent amount of Carafa Special will get you there.
Interesting use of the brown malt - I will have to keep that in mind when I get around to making one of these.
Good discussion.
[quote]so its really a Schwartzbier-IPA or is it Baltic IPA
[/quote]
Those would both require the use of a lager yeast 
touche! (though Baltic could be with ale yeast).
perhaps I should make one with 830 and call it an IndiaSchwartzbier to really screw with people!
i looked at my hops yesterday and i have some odd ones i haven’t tried yet…
zeus
apollo
citra…
maybe a good beer to try some of these as late hop additions in small-ish amounts?
I don’t think you quite get what we’re saying ;). For late hops (flavor and aroma) the quantity is more important than the IBUs. So whether it’s Simcoe (14% AA) or Crystal (~4%AA) I’m going to use 4oz at 20 minutes - you need a high quantity of hops to put big hop flavor and aroma into the beer, regardless of what the alpha acids are.
You control the overall bitterness by using the early hops (60min) as your plug for the cumulative IBUs. So in my simple example, the beer with Simcoe as the late hops, to get my targeted IBU for the beer, I may only need 1.5oz of Columbus as the 60min bittering charge, whereas with the Crystal hopped beer, I may need 3 or even 4oz to get the IBU target.
If you go ‘smallish’ late, your going to have ‘smallish’ flavor and aroma.
Its all subjective but when I brew an IPA I go with a base bitterness (as mentioned before, around 20 IBUs or so) and then hammer it home with the finishing and flavor/aroma hops. Zuess (which is aka Columbus) is a great dual purpose hop and I love it (see my IPA recipe in this thread somewhere). I have never even heard of apollo and haven;t tried citra yet but have heard good things about it.
by smallish, i mean an ounce or two of each! i may even go with a few hops at the 60 minute hop additions in much smaller amounts than that though.
I think the current terminology for one of these is Cascadian Dark Ale or Cascade Dark Ale. Obviously you are going for the hoppiness of an IPA but with a dark color and I, personally, don’t think they should have a roasty flavor. I do think they can have more malty backbone and mouthfeel then most IPAs. But what do I know.
I tried one by the Twenty First Amendment brewery that I still start to drool thinking about. I don’t know what is so attractive other than the fact that I drank expecting a porter, and experienced everything I love about both styles. yum
NYCHomebrewer
Not saying you are wrong, but if you have it dark without roastiness it seems like a gimmick to me. seems like what a lot of the brew pubs are going for though. FTR I’m not saying the should be stout roasty - just I think there should be a hint of roast or there is no point IMO.
all this talk of black ipa…dammit, I am going to crack my last Stone Sublime tonight…I can’t take it!!! 
;D
new hop profile…
0.50 oz Apollo [17.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1.50 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Zeus [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.7 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [9.00 %] (60 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.90 %] (60 min) Hops 8.8 IBU
0.25 oz Apollo [17.50 %] (60 min) Hops 13.2 IBU
0.50 oz Citra [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.0 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
0.50 oz Citra [11.00 %] (20 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [9.00 %] (20 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
0.75 oz Zeus [14.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 oz Apollo [17.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
and the final grain bill was…
12 lb maris otter
.5 lb crystal 60
1 oz black patent
7 oz de-bittered black
i ended up doing a 90 minute boil. i made one small change to the hop additions…
0.50 oz Zeus [15.00 %] (60 min)
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [9.00 %]
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.90 %] (60 min)
0.25 oz Apollo [17.50 %] (60 min)
0.50 oz Citra [11.00 %] (60 min)
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.90 %] (20 min)
0.75 oz Citra [11.00 %] (20 min)
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [9.00 %] (20 min)
0.75 oz Zeus [14.00 %] (0 min)
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.90 %] (0 min)
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.00 %] (0 min)
0.50 oz Apollo [17.50 %] (0 min)
i finished with about 4.5 gallons. it ended up dark dark brown instead of black. my final gravity was 18 plato, which was spot on with what i was shooting for.
the london ale 1028 (w/starter) started bubbling in a couple hours and this morning had about one inch of krausen! (my first starter)
i’ll update this thread after i know a little more about how this turns out.
first AG brew day with pretty smooth. no hitches with equipment or anything. i need to rig up some sort of sparge arm or something that works well with 10 gal. rubbermaid coolers…
I would keep the crystal 60 at 1 lb. But that’s to my taste. I agree with moving the hops to later additions as well. My bittering addition is usually around 30 IBU if the beer is 70 or above total.
Oh, I bet you would turn down a pint of mine! ;D