This is probably a stupid question but what are the effects of aerating wort before it has cooled, specifically doing the aeration while the beer is in the process of cooling? I use an aeration pump with an inline filter and stone diffuser.
Assuming airating hot doesn’t have a negative affect on the beer (many say it does), the colder the beer, the more gas it can hold.
Do a search on “HSA” and decide for yourself whether or not you believe in the problems created by hot side aeration. Personally I try to avoid HSA but don’t overly stress about it either. I recommend trying to minimize aeration of the wort when it is hot and I think it’s best not to aerate until the wort is under 80 degrees.
THIS^^^^ I do believe that aeration while hot can be a problem…hot defined as above the mid 80sF. You might be OK, but why take the chance? In addition, since a cooler liquid will absorb more gas than a warmer one, aerating while warm is kinda pointless.
My search of HSA only resulted in stuff I already know about health savings accounts, please give me a clue what HSA stands for and maybe I’ll make more headway.
Thanks;
V
Hot side aeration
Oxygen or any gas is less soluble in solution as temperature increases.
Also oxidation “oxidative off flavors” will increase with higher temperatures.
Sometimes ya got to do what ya got to do. I’m sure you beer is DELICIOUS!!
Have Fun
Most of a morning spent reading other’s opinions and observations on the subject revealed an utter lack of consensus on the subject. I did however come across a very interesting and informative podcast interview with Charlie Bamforth that Messrs Zainasheff & Palmer did on their radio show several years ago. If you aren’t familiar with the interview I think it might be worth 45 minutes of your time.
Thanks for all the input.
And yes I finally am making some good beers. I had an APA last night that needs another week or so of conditioning, but it tastes damn good!
[quote=“Visor, post:8, topic:23591, username:Visor”]
Most of a morning spent reading other’s opinions and observations on the subject revealed an utter lack of consensus on the subject. I did however come across a very interesting and informative podcast interview with Charlie Bamforth that Messrs Zainasheff & Palmer did on their radio show several years ago. If you aren’t familiar with the interview I think it might be worth 45 minutes of your time.
Thanks for all the input.
And yes I finally am making some good beers. I had an APA last night that needs another week or so of conditioning, but it tastes damn good!
[/quote]
FWIW, I understand Bamforth has changed his opinion since then.
BTW: If you type in “HSA Brewing” it pops up right away. Just sayin’. 
Bamforth’s previous view seemed reasonable to me. Basically, a brewer should avoid HSA, but there are other staling factors of much greater concern.
Do you have a source or know what he said that was different Denny?
Haven’t sourced it yet, but I understand that he said it was likely more of an issue than he had previously stated. But I don’t get the impression that his position changed a lot.
That wouldn’t surprise me. If you listen to all of their shows in order you get Bamforth’s “not as big a thing as we thought” and then subsequent paraphrasings make it sound even less important.
I think they were actually saying that of all the things to worry about HSA should be lower on your list than things like cleaning, sanitizing and steady fermentation temps. Given all the debate over this topic (and the lack of debate on the other three mentioned), it seems that advice is still on target.
I thought he was saying to get other things under control first, later in the process. Cold side aeration will stale a beer regardless I’d it was brewed with care on the hot Side or not. You have to take care as you go along, and do everything low O2.
I agree. That’s what I got out of Bamforth’s comments in that show too.
I was trying to speak to some of the later paraphrasings when they would say things like “HSA is not something to worry about”. I think some people took those comments too literally and wrote off HSA completely.
My original point (which I didn’t make very clearly), is that in spite of the hyperbole, I think they were simply rating HSA below a lot of other factors in terms of beer quality, not saying that it doesn’t matter at all.
Yeah, I’ve always been more careful on the cold side than the hot side, Jeff. But it’s past time to put more caution into the hot side as well. I fell into the trap of ‘HSA is overstated’ for a long time, but I’m ready to take care of the whole process. Not sure how far into the GBF process I’ll go , but I’m gonna start using Brewtan B on every batch and probably work some of the other lodo principles in as well.
Yeah, I got to be complacent. I know some guys who brew very good beer and splash and aerate like crazy. I can’t say how long the beer is stable.
I try not to splash the mash and wort. We put 1 Campden tablet into the mash, but that is too little to late. I don’t do the boiled and chilled thing. No DO meter here.
I do have a couple ideas to try, but I might need to get a DO meter for those techniques.
Soon we will be back in Germany, and touring a few breweries. I will ask what they do, some smaller ones won’t do anything.
I look forward to hearing what they say.
I still have some to set up. Guides may not have that level of detailed knowledge. Will see what I find.
I listened to one of this year’s NHC presentations the other day while brewing- Identifying and Avoiding Oxidation by Brian Bergquist: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/audio/2016/HomebrewCon16%20-%20Identifying%20and%20Avoiding%20Oxidation.mp3
I had always thought I was quite careful and paid attention to detail wherever I could in my process in regard to oxidation and aerating wort in the wrong ways at the wrong times. However, I have to say, I was thoroughly depressed listening to this presentation. I couldn’t help but feel like it was just an utterly fruitless battle at a home-brew (or even small brewery) level to avoid oxidation and its ill effects on beer. In particular, when he started talking about oxidative effects even during mash in… and how larger commercial breweries are even going to nitrogen flushed mash tuns, etc. It just kind of left me feeling like it was a war that can’t be won.
Obviously, there are a lot of home brewers making great beer on a regular basis. I know I have made some great beer (along with my fair share of mediocre and even bad beer). So… did others attend this session at NHC, or listen to it from the website? Curious as to what others thought? How far do you go in avoiding oxygen (in the mash, etc)?
Is this level of detail something we should be fretting over, or is this an example of something that can be measured scientifically, but does not really seem to show up in a measurable way to actual people drinking beer (kind of like a number of Brulosophy experiments often indicate… i.e. - sure there is a difference, but most can’t tell there is a difference, and even if they can, they can’t confirm what it is, or there is no actual preference one way or another for the drinker).