How low do you have to get the temp, before you can safely start agitating it to help speed cooling and promote aeration?
Not sure what your concerns are about safety: personal safety regarding hot liquids, or avoiding hot side aeration?
I start agitating as soon as I can after flame out and starting my IC. I dont know what HSA tastes like, so my beers may have it, either way though, I have enjoyed them
Avoiding hot side aeration. Also by stirring while the immersion chiller is in the pot I can cool the wort more quickly. The water that goes through my immersion chiller comes from a city water tower and is up to 76 F in the summer. Not ideal.
Thanks
As soon as you reach a temperature that is safe for your agitating equipment. I use a plastic impeller. I’m not sure which plastic it is made from, so I let the temperature drop before putting it in the wort.
Yes, I use a 16" high heat kitchen spatula to get the wort moving around and through the coils of my IC. It’s the same type of spatula we always used in restaurants for cooking: boiling soups, etc so I have never feared putting it into my wort. I have had it for over ten years of cooking and almost 3 years of brewing and it looks like new except it is a little discolored from all those soups and now brews
Back when there was a lot of talk on boards about hot side aeration I think the general rule was <100F.
Now days I start swirling the IC as soon as I can touch the output line without burning myself. It’s probably around 120 to 130F.
Paul
While there is much debate about HSA and its effects, I’ve always felt that it was easy enough to avoid that I try be safe. The commonly quoted “safe” temp for HSA is below the mid 80s But you can certainly whirlpool your wort at higher temps as long as you’re careful not to do it too strongly and introduce O2.
i guess I had not thought of that Denny, I definitely get some O2 in there while stirring (a little foam visible) will have to address that on my next batch
I stir my hop stands pretty vigorously and have never noticed any of the flavors that get attributed to HSA. I’ve done this at temps anywhere between 120F and ~200F.
I thought HSA was an over rated concern, but guys like John Palmer, Randy Mosher, and John Kimmich having differences of opinion on the matter. Hence the debate. John Kimmich (Heady Topper) doesn’t do it, I want to keep it to a minimum. I wonder what could be affected in flavor between a hop stand/whirlpool after FO that wouldn’t be introducing O2 in HSA? I had started out with a cooling process using a balloon whisk, a chiller and an ice bath, because it is the most dangerous time to for the wort to introduce bacteria. Although the best time to introduce O2 is at pitching temps, or at least under 100F. I have moved the whisk to those temperature ranges. Although I have never experienced oxidization in my beers, wet cardboard or sherry flavors.
I start stirring with my immersion cooler immediately with holding on to the inlet side to stir. I like Frank’s way of using a spoon/spatula on the inside of the IC. Might try that way on my next batch.
never had an issue with HSA. i pour sparge water from kettle into my cooler with no attempt to minimize splash. after boil, i begin swirling and bouncing my copper immersion chiller. my temps drop so quickly from boil to <100F i’ve never even thought about it.
always done it it this way since started brewing.
As soon as my boil is done I turn on my whirlpool pump and it runs non stop until I hit pitching temp. Never a problem
Same here. I really don’t like oxidized beer ( except for a slight amount in some big OG beers) and I don’t get that from doing this. Bamforth may be right as it applies to big breweries, but I’m not seeing it here. Ever.
I am an anal SOB. I detest oxidation. I have always followed the rule of thumb (as Denny stated) as 80F or below before I start moving the wort rapidly to chill it faster with my crappy IC.
For those of you not worrying about this, have you observed any ill effects (HSA potential) from long term aging of beers? For example, if one is rapidly stirring wort at 185F for a hop stand, I am assuming that the massive hop flavors/aromas combined with consuming the beer rather quickly (as IPA’s usually are) would help to mask any initial oxidation potentially contributed from HSA (if any at all occur). Just curious about aging beer with regards to this, as I (and many others) were curious with Brulosophers Exbeeriment on this topic as well.
For me- 1yr has been max for aged beer. No issues at all.
Just haven’t found the issues. Can’t speak for hoppy beers, they go fast, and need to go fast. I detest oxidation too, just find HSA pretty overstated. My (non hoppy) beers age well.
I saw some photos of open swan neck lautering systems and decided that HSA will never be a concern for me. I suppose it’s a possible cause of sherry notes in high gravity dark beers that are very old, or not.
Didn’t Marshall do an Exbeeriment that totally debunked HSA for homebrewing?
HSA aside, there is no reason to start aerating you wort until it is below 80 degrees. Hot wort is less able to dissolve o2 into solution anyway. While concerns of HSA may be over blown I agree with Denny, it’s not really ever challenging to avoid aerating hot wort so best just to avoid or minimize it as much as possible.