Against the wishes of the beer gods?

I am considering using almost eleven pounds of liquid extract (both hopped and unhopped) to make 7.0 to 7.5 gallons of wort. I have packets of S-05 that have been in my icebox for a year or two, along with fresh S-04. Would the beer gods be angered if I used one 11.5-gram packet of each type to eat-up all that sugar?

Why would I want to do this? Just to experiment, mostly. I have used S-05 in the past, but have recently read that S-04 delivers a product “better” than does S-05. How so, I do not remember. Do they have different rates of blooming and going through the sugar? Will one leave the other in the first one’s tire smoke, and possibly give to me false indications that fermentation is complete for one, but not for the other?

I will let fermentation go on for 18 to 19 days at 71 degrees Fahrenheit, then into the bottles for 35 days of conditioning at 71 degrees.

I wouldn’t think so. People mix yeast strains routinely. But unless my math is off, you’re only looking at 1.055-1.060 OG. I’m not sure you need two packs.

I haven’t gotten terribly different performance out of US-05 and S-04. My prediction is that you’ll be slightly underwhelmed by the result: it won’t be bad, but it won’t be profoundly different from either yeast alone.

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I would split the batch into two fermenters, use different yeast in each fermenter, and then compare results. That would be far more interesting to me than combining the two yeasts up front.

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There’s a lot to unpack. First, the extract. I have threatened to make a beer using pale DME for 5-8 years but I haven’t done it. My guess is that a brewer could make a decent beer with extract. On the S-04/US-05 … S-04 has an English character and I like it a lot. I made TWO runs of beers with S-04 in the last 3-4 years and the character is really nice but it will absolutely produce diacetyl so I suggest allowing the beer to warm up near the end of fermentation and don’t package it until a sample tells you that there is no diacetyl. I haven’t used US-05 in years primarily because the last time I used it, it produced a peachy-apricot ester that pretty much ruined the beer. People would ask, “Oh nice … what fruit did you use?”. :roll_eyes: Finally … there was a hybrid English-American strain that someone released … White Labs? I never tried it. I agree that I would not combine the two strains. Choose one. If it were me it would be S-04 for sure.

I totally agree with you and Dave. Split the batch and use the two yeasts separately. I also prefer S-04 over US-05.

Beg your pardon to the OP, but a bit of a sidetrack here: At what temp did you ferment -05? When brewers say they get peach from -05 it always makes me wonder why. Thx.

It would have been around 65°. I thought it was just me until I heard others (including Denny) say they experienced the same thing. I hate to cross ingredients off the list especially after an N=1 situation but I really dislike when ingredients surprise me and I don’t like my time and effort resulting in something I don’t like especially when there are so many different yeast strains out there. After all, we need to understand the ingredients we use and how they all work together. If I somehow misused the US-05 then I’ll accept that but I probably won’t use it again. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve been told higher 60°(s) F produce a cleaner Ale w/-05. :man_shrugging:

When I was a new brewer I always heard that you want to ferment “low in the range” so the beer is cleaner and have fewer esters. That’s what I wanted … cleaner-tasting beer. So if US-05 creates esters at lower temps … it would not be in accordance with the scriptures. But what do I know … I’m just a humble beermaker from the midwest. :smiley:

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Room temperature; 72º F or so. My heat and air conditioning is incorporated into my rent, so I can blast the A/C at 70 all summer and never feel the burn in a power bill.

Per the recommendations of Village Taphouse and goose, I’ll use S-04. It’s fresh; my S-05 is several years old. It’s been in my icebox all that time, but still.

I’ll ferment the whole shootin’ match in my twelve-gallon fermenter. I’m not overly energized to copulate-around with splitting a batch. The counter in my unused bathroom is only so big…

I consistently got peach from US-05. Fermented in the mid-60s to mid-70s.

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Room temperature; 72 or so…

I’ve gotten peach before with US-05 when I used to ferment at 64F (my standard temp for ales). I’ve now done 5 batches with US-05 and not gotten peach by using a heat belt and my fermentation fridge to keep the beer from 66-69F. I try for 68F but it is hard to keep it exactly there.

I still plan to move back to Bry-97. It’s annoying to have to put on the heat belt and I worry if I make a mistake and let it get to a lower temp it will go peach. It’s not a good peach flavor…

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I had heard that also so I tried a few times. Still got peach. Maybe it’s like diacetyl and some are more sensitive to it than others.

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That theory supposes that there is only one path to esters

Maybe. It’s the only path I have ever known or heard of … “higher fermentation temps lead to more esters”. That may be an oversimplification but it’s all I know. I see a number of responses from others who have gotten fruity esters from US05 at various temps and that’s enough for me. On top of that this is a neutral American ale yeast and it’s not hard to find an alternative and keep my brewing sanity. :smiley:

What if I told you… US-05 is NOT neutral.

I’ve gotten peach from it fermenting cool at around 55-60 F. I haven’t used it since. These days I use S-04 more.

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Yeah, I get that. I have mentioned the peachy-apricot ester many times and have chosen to stay away from it. But it seemed as it was always marketed as a neutral American ale yeast … like a dry version of 1056 or something. I’m sure there are brewers who have used it to make neutral ales with no fruit ester and so for them the yeast is doing what they expected. I tend to use ale yeasts at lower temps just like you and if that means I get fruit from US05 then I respectfully use another yeast. :slight_smile:

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Considering they cultured it from 1056…it shows that just because yeasts may have the same heritage, but that doesn’t mean they perform the same.

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US-05 is a somewhat distant cousin to 1056 actually… different branch of the bush… and both are even farther away from old uncle WLP001. But anyway. :smile:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/from-the-lab-family-tree-of-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547