Berliner Weiss Starter question

Ingredients
1

I am going to try a BW when the weather gets a little warmer.  I was planning on using both an ale yeast (maybe German Alt) and the Lacto from White Labs.  I am going to try the Brewstrong recommendation of pitching both at the same time.
I’m wondering if I need a starter for the Alt yeast or if I should just pitch a vial of each per 5 gals.  The gravity will be on the low side anyway.

My logic is that a large pitch won’t leave as much for the lacto to eat although I realize that they will eat more than what the yeast will. 
Thanks

2

I can’t imagine a fresh vial won’t contain enough yeast for a low abv beer like this.

FWIW, I’ve never had a satisfying BW made by adding lacto with yeast like this. Trouble is lacto eats simple sugars, but yeast eat them all first. It’s very slow to sour after that.

3

So add the lacto a day or two before?

I don’t want to screw around with a sour mash because what I’ve read about having to limit oxygen etc seems to scare me a bit.

I’ve never even had a Berliner weiss, can’t find one around here anywhere but I like the idea which is why I’m looking to invest into a 5 gal batch.

4

I’ve never done this, nor do I know anyone who has. But maybe you could chill to 90F and pitch lacto. Let it sit for a day, slowly cooling to 65F, then pitch yeast. Hmm. You should definitely try it and let us know if it works. This is basically the sour wort process, but skipping the boil in the middle.

Or is this useless because I’m using Fahrenheit?  :wink:

5

Fare-n-hite??? :slight_smile:

I like that idea. I’m brewing in the garage now at about -10 real degrees so I will have to wait a bit because wort left in there chills down pretty fast.
I will try dropping to 35C or so, pitching the lacto and then the yeast the next day. Beer never last that long for me so having to wait months to sour might not happen.

6

Kelvin? Just so you know, 35 kelvin might kill your yeast.

And Berliner without sourness is just kinda-wheaty blahness. Not much else in the recipe to hold it up.

7

as I understand the process the lacto will either work very slowly or not at all at temps the ale yeast will like and the ale yeast will just throw a big hot mess at the temps the lacto like. mtnrockhopper’s idea sounds like a winner to me. I’m planning my first BW this summer when temps at my house reach ~37-45C, 100-113f, or 310-318K whichever comes first.

8

Somebody posted a few weeks ago that the Wyeast/WL lacto cultures were selected for high 70’s(F) rather than warmer 100F (47.2 Reaumur).

9

They’re the same thing, they just start counting 273 degrees apart. Luckily I can do both ( or all 3).

Imgur

10

[quote=“morticaixavier, post:7, topic:16095, username:morticaixavier”]

Temps at my house will never reach that high. I may need to artificially apply heat. My coworker in Texas won’t let me come visit because he thinks I will die.

Really excited to try this.

11

I agree you should add the lacto first and let it sour before pitching your yeast. Far easier to hit the level of acidity you want and then add the yeast than to force the two organisms to compete at the same time. The yeast will normally win.