Hey all, I’m back from Florida. I just checked my Bock brewed on 12/7/14 and it is down to 1.025 from 1.072, or 65% attenuation with WLP833, pitched around 540B cells estimated when Beersmith called for 552B. When I left town, I gave it the last 2 degree bump to get it to 65DF and it was at 1.029 (60% attenuation at that point) it has been resting at 65 for 10 days and has only gone down another 4 points. My grist was 50/50 Munich I&II with 3 oz carafa II to get the color right. Mashed at 155, projection of 1.02 FG, really not even close right now. Its my first attempt at a Bock and the sample tastes good, if a bit sweet. The only yeast I have on hand currently is a pack of S04. Not sure if it is just done high due to mash temp? Or if I can get a couple more points out of it. Its roughly 6.2% ABV right now, a little low but drinkable. Any suggestions?
Push it up to 68-70 and rouse yeast?
I can try that, fingers crossed
Yep, it should help the yeast eat a few points, hopefully.
shoot that sucks! wonder if you got full conversion with mostly Munich and a high mash temp? Dont think re pitching will help unfortunately. ill keep my fingers crossed
Yes, I am liking the taste so when I re-brew it, I think I will mash lower with the same grist. My pre-boil grav and volume were right on with proj, as was OG and volume, so I am leaning towards too high mash temp or under pitching, but I thought my pitch was good after reading several posts on here from S. cerevisae about just needing to be close, and not off by a magnitude… you know what I mean
When you have problems like this it will make you wonder if you really pitched enough yeast? Did you aerate long enough? You might try subbing a couple pounds of pils next time and mashing a little lower and a little longer. It’s frustrating but you’ll start finding the tricks that work.
Well, here’s your problem right here. you probably mashed too high. I wouldn’t have mashed higher that 152. In fact, 148 would not have been too low. And a couple pound of pils malt will help insure that you have the enzymes necessary to compete conversion and dry your beer down where you really want it.
Too many brewers make the mistake in thinking “more body, more better” - these beers have plenty of body. The trick isn’t getting them to have enough body. It’s getting them dry enough so that when you finish the first beer, you really want a second. That’s really the key with every beer. And rarely is there ever a reason to mash at 155.
Thanks again. I figured it was likely mash temp and lack of fermentability it caused, since OG was on. Next time I’ll go with 150/152. I have heard about enzyme issues but I’m sure I read here that both Munichs will self convert but type 2 may be difficult. I was just running g with an idea I saw here a while back to do all Munich. I can add some pils on next attempt. It’s sitting at 69 now and I gave bucket a bit of rousing to see what the yeast have left in them. I’ll know better next weekend.
Theoretically they have enough to convert themselves, and I know the general consensus on the forum is you don’t need pils. I just find it makes a better beer for my tastes to add a little pils, especially if the gravity is higher. It’s just a little tool to keep in mind.
Regardless, in spite the higher finishing OG from what you want I’m sure it’s still a good, drinkable beer!
I have a nearly 100% Munich dunkel coming up (next brew day). This made me rethink my mash temp. Think I’ll go with 148° for 90 min and erring on the low side.instead of 152. Not much difference but it can’t hurt.
I’ve brewed a good number of gallons of 100% Best Malz Munich II dunkel, mashing at 154F, pitching WY2206, and FG of 1.012.
I get that everyone’s system is different, but I don’t treat Munich I or II much different than any other malt. Are you guys using a different maltster or something?
I just made a Munich II Dunkel yesterday with a little Carafa II for color and pitched a whole lot of think 2206 into it. I mashed in at about 150 and then settled at 154 after stirring and recirculating. We’ll see how it attenuates.
By the way, all the malt was cold smoked over citrus and pecan wood chips.
That sounds really good. I’ve used a lot of different wood, mostly for BBQ (including pecan), but never citrus.
Citrus makes a very clean smoke flavor, similar to beach wood. It lacks the sweetness of some of the popular fruit tree woods.
Was this Best Malz, Weyermann or (some other maltster)? They look to be slightly different in color rating and both have two variations of Munich (Weyermann typically uses Type I and Type II, but I have seen some references to Best Malz as Munich I and Munich II)
Both should convert fine so that shouldn’t be the issue. While a lower mash temperature might have been a good idea for this malt bill in a traditional bock, a higher temperature should be able to finish below 1.025.
I brewed 1.072 bock with mostly Munich I (Best Malz), 2 lbs dark Munich (the 20 L stuff), 2 lbs of Pils and some CaraMunich III and Melanoidin and it finished at 1.018 with the German Bock Lager yeast.
Rouse the yeast and keep it warm - see if that drops some off. Otherwise, if this were my issue, I would consider throwing in some fresh yeast that is actively fermenting (a small starter?) and see if that moves it at all.
Both were Weyermann Munichs. I raised temp and roused, will check again this weekend

Well, here’s your problem right here. you probably mashed too high. I wouldn’t have mashed higher that 152. In fact, 148 would not have been too low. And a couple pound of pils malt will help insure that you have the enzymes necessary to compete conversion and dry your beer down where you really want it.
Too many brewers make the mistake in thinking “more body, more better” - these beers have plenty of body. The trick isn’t getting them to have enough body. It’s getting them dry enough so that when you finish the first beer, you really want a second. That’s really the key with every beer. And rarely is there ever a reason to mash at 155.
+1 to what Keith says above. This is a significant factor to the underattenuation that I commonly detect in judging. Too many brewers focus on body instead of fermentability and they end up with nice and chewy beers, but they don’t attenuate and each sip ends up coating and cloying the palette. I rarely find that I want to finish the glass… much less, order another round. Drinkability is an important feature in great beers. Avoiding an overly high mashing temperature is the first step to drinkability in my opinion.
I started out 15 years ago targeting mash temperatures of 155F and higher. I’ve learned that keeping the max temperature around 152F does produce more drinkable beers for me. Another thing to consider is the duration of the mash. Both time and temperature are components in fermentability. Only in the smallest of beers do I bump up temperatures or shorten the mashing duration.
I agree with both Keith and Martin. Years ago I decided that most of the homebrew I tried was too thick and dextrous. That was my main motivation to go to longer and lower temp mashes.
Thanks Martin and Denny. Still learning and thought that was where I should be to keep abv in line with specs. This was really the first batch I’ve brewed with mash temp above 152. I will want to re-brew this one and will adjust temp. I remember thinking it was going to be a 90 minute mash but when I checked my notes it was 60. Next try will be 90 min at around 150/152