I’ve got a stout up next on the schedule and I figured I’d give a try to cold steeping the roasted grains and adding the liqour to the kettle. If I use the ‘black balanced’ profile in bru’n water it asks for ~200 ppm bicarbonate. I assume that this serves not only to buffer the acidifying effects of the dark malts but also to lend a particular flavor profile in the end. but perhaps I’m wrong. I know for sure that if I put enough chalk or lime in to get that level my pH gets way to high.
so do I just skip the bicarbonate recommendation? do I add it to the kettle? I guess I could add both the steeping liqour and the bicarbonate to the sparge water.
If you’re going to add the steeping liquid to the kettle, why do you have to account for dark grains at all? I’d guess the bicarb is to adjust pH becasue of the assumed dark malt on the mash. When I do what you’re doing, I simply pull the dark grains from the recipe, and use the water recommendations based on that.
that’s more or less what I’m thinking I was not sure however if there were other flavor contributions from the high bicarb levels I’d be missing. probably over thinking it.
won’t the kettle pH and final beer pH be low if he doesn’t do something to offset the lowering effect of the steeped liquid being added to kettle? (assuming that it does - i don’t know for sure).
just trying to play devil’s advocate - I have zero experience doing this as i just mash my roasted grains.
If you have the purchased version of Br’un, there is a check box that helps with the calculation.
Yes, the dark steep addition into the kettle will lower the pH there. I have done both ways and for me it really comes down to astringency and grainy roasty flavors from the roast. The cold steep tastes smoother. I have not had bad results from the cold steep and the pH drop seems nominal. This also allows me to add far less pickling lime or baking soda (I use RO) in the mash, if required at all.
When using Br’un to match a profile, I tend to ignore the bicarbonate if I can achieve a reasonable mash pH and the flavor ions I desire.
…will also depend on the chemistry of the water out of his tap. I do think that the final beer pH is a factor in the taste of the beer. There’s a window of opportunity to reach that will result in better overall taste IMO. As you and many of us know, that will depend on variables including water chemistry, grain bill, etc…
right, but is that a good pH to have in the mash because it’s not too high and it makes for a higher kettle and finished beer pH or because mashing at that pH makes for better flavor?
IMO a better flavor. A dark roasty beer (to me) is just a better beer at ~ 5.4 to (especially)5.5 pH. I feel that the roasted malt flavor in the beer gets more harsh and acrid as you go down from there in pH. Truthfully, I don’t measure finished beer pH - I feel that if I hit my target to the letter using Bru’nWater (and verify by measuring pH), that the finished beer pH will be as it should be. I used to cold steep, but I now mash all the malt, but aim for 5.5, and really am liking the results.
Agreed - I occasionally add carafa III just before sparge if it’s just for coloring, if I remember to, but otherwise I gave up cold steeping once I tested just raising the pH.
I don’t brew dry stouts, so that may be a different animal, but for my stouts and porters I actually prefer a bit more roasty bite. I reserve cold steeping for things like Dunkels, Ambers, Alts, etc., where I am using a roasted malt solely for color and really want as little roasted flavor as possible. I find that cold steeping mutes some of the roasty character from these malts.
I saw a night and day difference in my dark beers when I started targeting the very upper end of the mash pH range. I’m not really sure how I’d factor that in for cold-steeped grain. But, as Denny said, only one way to find out…
If you use enough, you still can make it as roasty as you’d like it to be. You just eliminate the unpleasant bitterness… At least I find it unpleasant. But as you guys are doing with adjusting the pH, you’re probably eliminating it too this way. I’m not that knowledgable with water chemistry at this point and am kinda on the fence about making that great leap.
one of these days I swear I will get that.