I’ve been rethinking my liquor strategy lately (had at least one other thread on this board), and now I’m reconsidering the option (done it before) of RO (buying it, won’t invest unless I decide to go this way regularly.) I have a good idea from experience of the levels of calcium and additional acidification I need to hit my mash pH. Is there any other trace mineral I should really consider building in? In the past I’ve included around 20% of my natural water for trace minerals; really needed?
What I’ve learned in the past 18 months or so from my main collaborator is that KISS reigns supreme as far as water is concerned.
Enough CaCl2 to get to 40 ppm Ca, maybe some NaCl, all sulfates coming from antioxidants, and either Na or K coming from antioxidants as well. I will still use a targeted amount of Wyeast nutrient by dosing around 0.3 g/gal and that contributes, most notably, a touch of magnesium, zinc, and another kick of sulfate (~ 9 ppm).
And that’s it. No Epsom, no baking soda, no Gypsum, etc.
KISS is what got me trying to adapt my natural supply in the first place! That aside: I use Servomyces, which will provide only zinc unlike Wyeast nutrient. (But I always have WY on hand for when I need to propagate.) I don’t use antioxidants (sorry, man, still largely conventional brewhouse practices!) Given those conditions, how would you proceed? All DI and switch to Wyeast nutrient, add calcium and then acidify as needed? That would suit me as far as simplicity goes.
Edit: Oh, and when do you add the nutrient? As liquor treatment, or late boil as usual?
I would say that a mix of Calcium Chloride, Gypsum and NaCl would be fine. Acidify as needed. I add the Wyeast nutrient late boil and account for Mg, Zn, and Sulfate in my kettle water profile.
Na really needed?
Not really. I would add it to taste if you want.
I make a lot of pale lagers. My source water is: Ca 34, Mg 12, Na 13, Cl 21, SO4 27 and bicarb 138. I neutralize the bicarb with lactic acid and usually add about 3g of calcium chloride for something like a helles, pilsner, dort, American lager, etc. My Ca ends up around 60ppm, the chloride is around 60-65 while the SO4 stays at 27 which is usually plenty of sulfate for a beer like this. If it were any higher I might dilute 25% with distilled or something. I do not add Na at all. All of that plus proper pH control has made a world of difference in these styles.
Absolutely not, but it is desirable.
Brewers keep having this phobia about sodium and at the levels we typically employ, its completely unfounded. For illustration, the level of sodium needed to produce a ‘salty’ taste in water is about 250 ppm. That’s not a likely level for any brewer (excepting Gose brewers!). I do find that keeping it below 70 ppm in dark beers is pleasant. I’d keep it below about half that level in paler beers.
If you are trying to stick to a particular style, you can research the water used in that region and try to mimic that. I am fortunate to have pH ~6.5 water that is relatively free of minerals and moderately hard. I use between 40-50% distilled water blended with my tap water for lagers and Belgian style beers to good effect. Playing around with a mixture of distilled water is an easy way to dilute the minerals in your tap water.
So if I add some NaCl, then should I use some combination of CaCl2 and gypsum to get my calcium, in order to keep the chloride down? Or is chloride just brewers’ phobia too?
The problem with this advice, as many have stated before, is that regional/municipal water profiles tell you almost nothing about the brewing water for that region unless, as is stated about some of the Trappists in a book like BLAM, that the brewery uses the water “as-is” with relatively no modification.
Your water sounds good to me. Mine varies wildly especially in what I feel are the two most important parameters: Ca 20-45ppm, total alkalinity 50-110ppm. I test these every time I brew (2-3 times a month) and realize I’m spending a small fortune on indicators and reagents. And with Na north of 40ppm, Cl and SO4 both 50-120, I don’t have a lot of room for adjustment for pale lagers (just about all I brew.) I’m checking Amazon for stand-alone RO systems!
Further problem, water report only tells you the composition at the particular time and place the sample was drawn. Water can vary seasonally, daily, and at various points in the system (what does it pick up in the pipes, if it’s tested at the plant tap?)
I started looking at in-home RO systems very hesitantly. But that was before I knew how to deal with the higher bicarb level in my water. Once I got that part figured out I realized that the other numbers in my water were pretty modest. I think one decent option for you would be to dilute your water with some percentage of distilled (which you know will have ZERO ions) and if you deplete something to the point that it’s too low, you can add it back. Personally I don’t care for beers with a lot of sulfate in it so I use more CaCl than I do CaSO4. In pale styles you can have a smidge of sulfate for crispness, etc. but I have no issues having 3x the amount of chloride in the water (over sulfate). It seems like my conclusion after looking into this for years is that the best brewing water is soft because it’s much easier to add things than remove them.
Indeed easier to add. I actually just placed my order for a RO unit, and I’m getting a TDS meter too for good measure. I know the small units leave some trace minerals I’ve heard they’re about 90% efficient) but that’s fine. With this I’ll be able to build from scratch or dilute my source, depending on the beer. Still need to know the targets though! At least I won’t be totally at the mercy of my source.
A couple years ago I installed an RO system with a line to my kitchen sink and a line to my garage (where I brew - usually electric). This was the best move I ever made in brewing - the TDS meter shows a typical post-treat water of 12-14 TDS. I preboil my H2O and add a little CaCl2, some NaMeta, and some Brewtan B to my mash and run with it as adjusted for light German lagers. I get high compliments and can’t keep the helles in stock with my friends choosing it over any other I brew.
Good luck with your water!
Have home RO systems gotten easier to manage? I know that when I looked at them there were concerns about them using A LOT of water to run (waste water?) and also how finicky they can be with the membranes requiring constant attention or some such thing. Turns out I didn’t need to go that way. I was buying distilled water like I was getting paid for it… if I found it for 69¢ a gallon I would by 20 gallons and use it. I don’t have to do that anymore either… thank Jeebus.
Thanks for the encouragement, now that I’ve pulled the trigger! The unit I ordered is a “portable” or stand-alone unit: no reservoir, no need to install, so I can just break it out to prepare brewing water and then store it away! That was a major requirement for me. I already have a carbon filter under the kitchen sink, in line – all the cold water goes through. That’s all I want for cooking, baking, and beverage use. And until now I thought it was good enough for brewing. The only problem I have now is that the RO arrives tomorrow and I won’t be brewing until the 30th – can’t wait! The other day I did my Helles with “worst case” liquor, my supply with the minimum possible treatment. Look forward to seeing the difference!
Waste varies but most systems I’ve seen quote 3-4 gallons wasted per gallon produced. Waste goes up as back pressure from a pressure tank builds or if the source water doesn’t have the best pressure.
Maybe they haven’t changed since your experience, but all I’m doing is brewing water, not whole house. And at under $250, and using a good 500 gallons a year, it should pay for itself before long. And as I said earlier, I’ll save a bunch by no longer having to test my water before treatment. I won’t know until I read the manual what the life of the membranes and filters is, but with my use I hope they last. I think I’ll run it off the faucet with the carbon block, so that might extend it a bit too. Ooh, Amazon just shipped it! So, I used to buy $0.89 water sometimes, but this seems the cheaper way after all. Maybe in a couple of months I’ll post a review of sorts.