The inspiration comes from Rowley’s Farmhouse Ales in Santa Fe. I believe they do this with their Gose. John Rowley’s comment, “Lactic acid is pretty monodimensional. But when you mash with lemons, you get a lot of different fruit character that you wouldn’t get normally. It’s not going to give you over-the-top lemon character, but it is going to give you those secondary lemon notes.”
I plan on brewing a Saison next weekend and was contemplating using lemons in the mash instead of lactic to get my pH in line. I’m pretty hell bent on trying it so most likely I will unless you all talk me off the ledge. Anyone ever give it a go? I have no idea how to calculate a cut-up lemon for pH adjustment so I’ll experiment and use some volunteer lemons in a pot of water, checking the drop in pH 1/4 lemon at a time. Then take that knowledge into brew day.
Citric Acid (the acid found within lemons, and thereby the fundamental component of your interest) would be a much better choice, and it would not alter the beers flavor as much by a long shot. But even Citric Acid will at some sufficient level (presently unknown to me) add an undesirable flavor.
I’ve added up to 2 grams of citric acid (so far) to the mash of a 5 gallon batch of Kolsch without tasting it. Roughly the ballpark pH 5.5 acid equivalent of 1.75 mL of 88% Lactic Acid if my reckoning of such equivalence is correct.
OTOH, I added only 1 TSP of concentrated lemon juice (nowhere near 2 grams of citric acid) to 6 gallons of wine, and I can taste the lemon in the wine. Not a good taste.
I would be surprised if the amount of lemons/lemon juice/citric that I add would overwhelm the flavor of the finished beer considering it will travel through the mash, boil and Belle Saison fermentation. Of course, I base that all on hope and not any practical experience.
Just before bottling. It needed a touch of acidity and I didn’t have any wine acid blend on hand so I used 1 tsp of concentrated lemon juice in 6 gallons of wine, never imagining that at such a small level it would be tasted.
Go for it, its only beer! Worst case scenario is that you’d get some lemon flavor carryover all the way through the mash, boil, and fermentation, and I dont think that is super likely, to be honest. Even then, I don’t think I’d mind that in a saison brewed with Belle.
Whatever you decide to do, make some notes and let us know how it turns out! A quick Google search shows that the average lemon has about 7.5g of citric acid. I’d use a water calculator to determine how much citric acid you need for your recipe and then convert that to how much lemon you need. It won’t be super accurate, but it’s at least going to get you in the ballpark.
Just a suggestion. Why not just use a small amount of Acidulated Malt in the mash. that way you don’t hve to mess with the lemons and such.
I use 0.4 lb. of acidulated malt in the mash for an 11 gallon batch of my Saison and the pH comes out just fine (last batch was 5.37). Not trying to talk you down, just trying to make things easier.
That said, the lemon might be an interesting experiment
as you already know its possible its gonna add flavor, if you dont mind lemon flavor in your beer i dont see why not, pretty much any acid can be used, some are dangerous so you wont see aqua regia, sulfuric or hydrochloric being used as far as i know unless you brew with fester Addams, i would not go near that stuff, i tried a few acids before phosphoric,lactic and citric powder, i dont personally like to complicate mash ph so i just use lactic now cause its predictable and a little goes a long way with minimal flavor contribution, all in all i don’t think lemons will cause you problems its just diluted citric acid,absorbic acid, water and im sure a few other constituents
Well I usually use Lactic to adjust my pH. Very simple procedure, works fine.
The idea of the lemons is to see if they will bring a brightness/freshness/lemon character to the finished beer that Lactic can’t. It’s an experiment for sure, though one based off of Rowley’s Farmhouse Ales. I’m only trying this on a Saison because I think the “lemoniness” would work well (if I get it). And if I don’t get anything, so be it. I just hope to not mess up the mash pH.
I can’t speak to use of lemons from personal experience. What I can say is that Rowley Farmhouse Ales has gained quite a bit of renown, folks around here think highly of their beers (they’re about 45 minutes up the road from me), and from what I can tell John Rowley is a bit of an experimental brewer so not surprising that he’s gone down the road of using lemon juice for acid adjustment where it sounds like he’s felt like some flavor contribution from the lemons was a plus. He has a degree in chemistry and worked at Los Alamos National Laboratories, which leads me to believe that he’s also a bit scientific in his approach and has rationale for supporting something that might be little on the wild side, and perhaps has worked out the numbers pertaining to his lemon acid adjustment. I’d encourage you to reach out to him either by phone or email (available on their website) to solicit a little more info if you’re so inclined. Breweries here in New Mexico fully opened back up for business as of today, meaning brewers are back at work full time.
I reckon you won’t know if you don’t try - and yes of course he may not bother with a reply, but no harm in asking. No I haven’t tried Meyer Lemon Gose. Sound right tasty though. I enjoy Anderson’ Valley’s briny melon gose and have come up with my version of a honeydew melon gose that’s a great summertime brew. Anderson Valley’s goses tend to lean heavy on the salt but I enjoy them.
Shawn (as per your awesome suggestion), earlier today I sent Rowley Farmhouse Ales a message from their “Contact Us” page. John Rowley himself sent me a reply in a few hours. That he took the time to personally write a friendly response - and that he gave me way more information than I asked for - was beyond generous. I already thanked him once, but if you ever read this John, thanks again.
I didn’t ask him if it was ok for me to just paste his response here, so I don’t think I should do it. There was a fair bit regarding his processes that just feels so trade-secretive. Considering the tone of his response I doubt he would mind. Still…
But if life doesn’t get in the way, I will be mashing with lemons this weekend. I will keep the thread updated.
Unlike lemons, that’s sweet that you got a quick and informative response. Confirmation once again for me that brewers are in general a generous lot who want to support and encourage others. Speaking of encourage, I encourage you to follow up down the road with a post just to let us know what you think of your outcome, both pH and flavor wise. Cheers!
