Hey guys. I have been tossing around the idea of doing my first saison soon. I was thinking about making it darker than a tradtional Saison by adding chocolate, midnight wheat, carafa, etc. Any thoughts?
Pils 75%
Munich 10%
Wheat 10%
Dark Malt (chocolate? carafa?) 5%
Since you’re not sure what malt, I’m gonna assume you’re just looking for colour and not flavour.
So, then the question is simple. Gonna enter it in competitions? Yes, don’t do it. No, who cares, go for it.
I’ve done this. However you might want to call it a dubbel instead. 
Go for it it’s your beer.
I’ve made red saisons and black saisons and, of course, pale saisons. It’s really up to you. Understand that the yeast is going to play a critical role here so you may want to start out with a pale saison so you can see what flavors to expect and then design your darker saison accordingly.
There is a Zymurgy issue with lots of saison recipes, many dark. I think it is 1-2 years ago - might be on eZymurgy?
Maybe Midnight Wheat? Chocolate Rye?
I’d like to hear what Drew suggests…
I found it - September/October 2011, page 22 by Mr Beechum. A Saison for Every Region. It is available on eZymurgy. And I found it using the archive search - COOL!
I brewed a dark table saison a few weeks ago. It was tasty. I was mostly using the carafa because I didn’t have any other acid source and it helped keep my mash pH in line. It was tasty. It also added some complxity to a 1.036 beer that might otherwise have been a little thin.
Thanks all. Definitely won’t be entering in any comps. I am going mostly for color but a little added character/complexity. The plan is to use WY3711 - French Saison and probably add a bit of coriander. I would like to end up in the 20 SRM range. At this point, I am thinking carafa or midnight wheat. I will check out some of those recipes to get some ideas.
I did something very similar recently too. I used Black Patent, wanted a “red” saison. Turned out browner than I’d hope but like I said above. Not entering any contest so who cares. Tastes just fine.
Euge - is this really a dubbel?
My red sasion was nothing like a dubbel. Nor was my black.
Who cares if you’re going to enter it in competition or not, that’s why there’s a Belgian speciality category.
I made a dark Saison with midnight wheat, carafa, chocolate rye & pale chocolate…it was awesome…and still in the Saison realm
-Ton
I wouldn’t call a dark beer with saison yeast a dubbel.
Why not? I’ve had dome dry Dubbels…
I certainly think you could make a dubbel with saison yeast. BUt I don’t think a dark saison is necessarily a dubbel. To me a dubbel has to use belgian candi syrup or at least have the “raisin” like quality like you get from special B. I’ve made my fair share of dark saisons and none of them tasted like a dubbel. I made a “Belgian Red” last year that was delicious, and use WLP500. And it was close to dubbel strength. But was nothing like a dubbel.
Well that could be as to why I liked the term dubbel for my strong dark saisons when I used a significant amount of special-B. If color is so insignificant to an established guideline for a “saison” then dryness vs sweetness is also in the gray area IMO. I can pick and choose too when terming my strong beer.
I think dubbles should be pretty dry, but not peppery and I think of saison yeast as peppery.
That’s a great point!
The BJCP guidelines for dubbel say low-moderate phenolics, including peppery, are OK. But saison also has citrusy esters, while dubbel has dark fruit esters.
And the candi sugar! Or at least special B. That caramel raisin and dark fruit quality is what makes a dubbel, for me anyways. Saisons are dry and peppery and can have a citrus fruit quality like you said. But if you use a saison yeast on a dubbel recipe (with candi and/or special B) it will strongly resemble a dubbel. Hell, I made a doppelbock one time with generous amounts of special B and it resembled a dubbel.