I just signed up, I know this may be a common topic but I just started my second brewing attempt, first time I got an IPA kit as a gift with LME. Followed instructions ,surprisingly beer turned out good which motivated me to keep going, however was nowhere close to an IPA more like a balanced stout.
Now after boiling my second batch and reading up a bit more, I now used both Pilsner LME and DME, but wort still turned darker than it should.’
Should I get rid of LME completely, does it make a huge difference if I add LME at the end only? It’s suprising I had to dig this out on my own since I bought supplies from local store, no one bothered to emphasize that boiling LME for 45 min with hops leads to caramelization.
Did you guys brew with DME only and got great results? i mean color wise , don’t mind the color actually but a very dark wort means stout like notes which is not bad but I want to be able to brew other beer profiles.
I just want to brew a normal IPA with light amber or pale straw color then go from there experimenting.
My experience with lighter extracts has been that my resulting beer was light in color and I had to add specialty malts if I wanted to approach 10-15 SRM in color (orangish - red).
That was back in the days when I would get my light LME from a hand pump on a 55 gallon drum at a local homebrew shop. (the quality and oxidation might have been a little suspect compared to what is available today). I don’t believe that a significantly darkened wort darkened wort is a byproduct of simply using extract.
I think liquid malt extract is known to darken a little over time, but dry malt does not seem to suffer the same reactions even after bags are opened (if resealed decently).
Carmelization, in my opinion, would take a lot of time and heat, but I think you mentioned a 45 min boil. The only thing I can think of that may cause significant darkening is some form of scorching. Is the extract fully diluted with water when boiling?
Maybe 1 (or 2) SRM. “Stout” colors from Pilsner LME suggest the LME in the can is in the SRM 15 range (rather than SRM 3).
Yes. I also brewed with some Williams specalty LME a couple of years ago (Pale Ale, Red Ale, Brown Ale) and the colors for the beer were appropriate (around mid-point) for the style
DME + 30 min boil. I put it all the DME in the kettle after the steep has finished. Others like to save half (or more) of the DME for the end of the boil. In either case, turn off the heat and add the DME slowly to avoid scorching. Some people make a slurry to avoid havig to add the DME over steam.
One of Chris Colby’s books has a technique for measuring the freshness of LME based on it’s color. I can find the specific reference if there’s interest.
So here’s photos of LME when I opened the can Pilsner LME, wort mixed fully diluted before returning to boil then wort color in fermenter after being chilled to 70 something degrees.
Boil time and everything else i followed based on recipe instructions. I returned to boil slowly not at high heat mixing constantly, no settling on bottom returned to boil only after fully diluted.
I”ll try DME only next time and see where I get
Looking at the picture from MoreBeer the color does not seem off. Concentrated LME produces darker wort. How did the beer taste? If it tasted ok don’t worry about it. If the color bothers you use an opaque mug
FYI, the Briess LME has a date stamped on the container, but it doesn’t say whether it is the manufacture date or the expiration date. I couldn’t find the answer on their website, so I did an AI chat. Copilot said it is the manufacture date, and it can be stored for two years. The Briess website agrees with the two year storage. I would rather have it fresher than that, but I’ve gotten some over a year old, and it was fine. But I haven’t used any Pilsner that old.
I had the same experience with LME. I assumed I was either boiling too high gravity or too hot or for too long, or all three. So, I got an 8-gallon kettle and gently boiled the full volume for only 30 minutes, but beers were still way too dark and malty for style. Meanwhile, I noticed that I could easily make very light starter worts with light DME, so I attribute the dark color and overly malty profile to the LME and I’ve never gone back.
I would like to say that I now make light colored beers with DME, but I switched to all-grain long ago and am happy to have complete control now. But I do feel strongly that if you switch to DME you will get much better results.
The old rule of thumb (I’m too old for new ones) was LME darkens during the boil and lightens during fermentation. I did see that sometimes but not to a huge extent.
Brewers also used to recommend only adding 1/2 the extract at the beginning and add the rest with 5 or 10 minutes left. That was to get better Hop extraction but it help with darkening too, maybe.
Another possibility might be mis-packaged product (blame the guy on the pachaging line)?
Thank you for the input, I just bottled the second recipe, it looks more promising than the first, first one was a kit, this I just picked ingredients based on recipe, mix of LME and DME, in any case if I ever use LME again I don”t really see the purpose to boil it for 40 min or longer, since you have to bring it to a boil no matter how slow, sugars will caramelize no matter what, I will be adding it at the end, however I think next time will experiment with DME only and then maybe all grain just to try and see where i get with different options.
Again every input is helpful when you’re a novice so I’m grateful for anyone stepping in and sharing their wisdom.
I don’t think LME always makes dark beer. Dark LME makes dark beer. If you buy fresh LME and use a recipe calculator like Beersmith or Brewers Friend you should be able to design a recipe for any color and style you want. You may need to mix DME and LME to get the lightest colors.
I don’t use extract too often but when I do, I have liked the LME from Williams Brewing.
A heads up about Williams LME. I got some LME from Williams Brewing that started fermenting in the sealed package. They refunded for the bad extract. When I emailed and asked about the problem, I got this response:
“I spoke to Bill and we do not know when or if we might get more Nut Brown. We do have quite a bit until we run out. Not all of it has been bagged. We’ve only had a couple that started to ferment in the bag. The other sizes seem to be fine. We do believe it may have had to do with the hot weather. It is refrigerated here and we are now going to put a sticker on the bags in warm weather to refrigerate on arrival.”
I no longer buy LME from Williams.
Yes, I stored it at room temperature (climate controlled). Since Williams cites the hot weather, they may have stored it in a non-climate controlled area. And putting a sticker on the bag isn’t a real solution. I wouldn’t have room in my refrigerator for the 24 pounds of malt extract that I normally bought.
I also have had good results with Williams style specific LME. MoreBeer’s “Ultralight LME” product description makes some interesting claims - once they “get comfortable” in their new KS warehouse, I may order some.
In the mid-2020s, the keys to success with LME remain constant: work with a high(er) volume retailer; ship in oxygen barrier bags; store in the fridge when it arrives, and brew with it promptly (1 month? 2 months?).
