I recently entered an Irish Red Ale into a competition, and it got dinged for diacetyl.
I used all English malts, hops, and yeast as is called for in the BJCP guidelines. My goal was to create a caramelly beer with hints of toast and toffee. I think I accomplished my goal.
However, when I got the scores back I was surprised to see the notes on diacetyl. Now, I can’t taste any diacetyl at all, and the beer doesn’t have the hallmark slick mouth feel.
So I went back and had another smell/taste. I can’t taste any diacetyl; as a matter of fact, it tastes very clean. However, in the aroma I detect the English crystal, and it does smell sort of like butterscotch. It is actually pleasant–to me, anyway-- and it seems like it’s more of a combination of caramel and toffee which is what Irish Reds are supposed to have.
Has anyone else ever experienced this flavor/taste from English crystal or had someone else mistake it for diacetyl?
It could be diacetyl, of course, but I really don’t think so.
I have a couple of buddies that got dinged for the same reason and their experience was the same as yours. I tried their beers and found them to be very tasty and to style. IMO, I think there are many judges who mistake the carmel notes for diacetyl. The guidelines state that the aroma “may have a light buttery character” and "occasionally with a buttered toast " flavor.
I know that 1084 is a notorious producer of diacetyl, and I like it in my Irish Red, but I brewed it at the last moment and didn’t have any on hand, so I went with the 04.
Yes I noticed that language in the guidelines, too. I can see how they might mistake that for the dreaded D. After all, judges are trained to look for imperfections, and could perhaps be a little hyper vigilant. I can detect diacetyl, and I don’t like it, but I’m 99% sure that it is not diacetyl.
Whenever I have and beers from Shipyard, I know that is diacetyl.
Some judges are idiots. The style guidelines allow diacetyl in this style. Enter a different competition and you’ll get different results. I guarantee it.
s04 is usually very clean for me however there was one instance where I was like ‘so that is what diacetyl is’ as it was very noticeable. From what I recall, I transferred off the yeast too soon. I trust this what not your experience. It’s a bummer to get dinged for something like that especially if it isn’t accurate…
I know this is true if yeast it present, because the elevated temp activates the yeast to consume the diacetyl. But are you saying that simply raising the temp will do the same thing?
I tried something similar with acetyaldehyde in a pils I made years back - dave mentioned to me the boiling point of acetyaldehyde was 60-something IIRC, and advised me to pull the kegs out and degas them over a week or so. it certainly seemed to help a lot - there was a faint hint of green apple after, but that could have also been me knowing it was there at one point, since most tasters didn’t notice it.
my guess is that there is still enough yeast in the unfiltered beer to ‘clean up’ the job if warm and thus not dormant. but that is purely speculation.