Experimental Brewing Podcast Episode 42 -Hopping and Festing with Nick

General Homebrew Discussion
1

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/episode-42-hopping-and-festing-nick

Hey, guess what - it’s our first repeat guest! (We think - who can keep track?)

But first, an announcement:

Homebrew Con (15-17)
        14th - 6:00 PM Trivia at Chop & Bru Party - See ChopandBrew.com for ticket details
        15th - Hold My Beer and Watch Me Science
        16th - Panel: Building a Great Homebrew Club / Craftmeister / Book Signing / Podcast at BrewCraftUSA Booth
        17th - Denny Rests, Maybe

In the feedback, we take a moment to re-visit some questions about Bio-Transformation and address some very pointed criticism about our Brew-Tan experiment.

In the pub, we enjoy a pint or two we raise a pint to Peter Simpson,  talk a big beer slide, how to avoid selling out to the IPA-borg and a Chinese Bud Bust.

Inspired by the MBAA Master Brewers podcast, we stop by the library and look at Barth-Haas’s latest dissection of hop flavor and aroma as spurred by all these fancy new hops we have at hand.

We stop in the brewery to review Drew’s reviews of several malts, including those from our sponsor, Mecca Grade Estate. Which malt will reign supreme?

Then in the Lounge, it’s a double dose of interviews - first, live from the Southern California Homebrewers Fest, Drew and Marshall Schott (Brülosophy) interview Kevin Baranowski about his attempt to wake everyone up at the Fest with a Sweet Stout served through a Randall stuffed with Bourbon soaked coffee beans. Then, with podcast magic, we blink our eyes and suddenly Drew swings up to the Bay Area and catches up with Nick Impellitteri about what’s happening with the Yeast Bay.

Finally we tackle questions we can answer. Drop a quick tip from a listener and inspired by our last Brew Files episode and Denny talks about his newest PBS obsession!

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Thank you for doing this, Denny. I will be at Home Brew Con next week. It will be my first time at a Home Brew Con. I would like to buy a copy of Homebrew all-Stars and have you and Drew sign it. I am assuming it will be sold there. Thanks.

3

It will and we have a book signing just before our live podcast on Friday - 1:30-2:30PM in the Expo Center.

4

Say what you want - you guys stand up and talk about criticism (BTB haters gonna hate). I agree with Denny - sometimes pragmatic and experiential results, while not compiled in compliance with strict scientific standards, can give meaningful results… keep up the good work.

And… remember Mark Twain’s statement:  there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.  Sometimes just trying it out for yourself is a valid approach despite being unable to “prove” anything.

Of course I am admittedly in the corner of BTB…I just like the beers I make using it.  Experience based, not science, but enough to satisfy me.

Thanks for the open dialogue.

5

Thanks, Drew!

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I think the science of Brewtan B is well known and everyone can get some use out of it. That to me is not really up for debate.

My only real beef was representing it as some sort of Oxygen scavenger, which it isn’t, but I believe you guys put that aspect right.

Theoretically, everyone should see some sort of a benefit from using Brewtan B or other gallotannin based chemicals.

7

I definitely noticed a benefit, which I attribute to its ability to help chelate copper (from the copper IC I was using at the time).

8

One thing that came up that I’ve noticed a bit more is there’s a more “marketing” going on with new malt and new malthouses specifically. I’ve looked at getting grain from some newer, smaller malting companies, and they tend to stray from using traditional naming schemes, even if their malts follow the same general idea. Rather than naming their Munich malt munich or pilsner or pale malt. A few theories on this:

  • Malts don’t fall into “style” by accident or design
  • Emphasis on “locality”, Two Tracks’ OKEFENOKEE PALE MALT, or Badlands Sunset, Mecca Grade’s Metolious, Vanora, etc.
  • Dominance of Maris Otter (Although it’s a barley variety), or trends in hops like Citra, Mosiac, etc.
9

Denny, I know you took a shellacking on ‘demonstration’ vs ‘experimentation’ and promoting products of your sponsors around the internet. I appreciate the way you guys handled the Brewtan B issue in your feedback segment. Takin your lumps can ultimately be a good thing for the show and your body of work. Well done.

10

I disagree. The results were inconclusive so it begs the question: why use it at all?  Because the results are inconclusive, I do not think the science of Brewtan B is well known and everyone can get some use out of it. Given the pragmatic philosophy of “doing what works best”, I’d think based on these inconclusive results I am in Drew’s camp.

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The science of gallotannin based compounds like Brewtan B is very well known. Bad results from this experiment don’t invalidate that.

EDIT: Let me step back for a second. I think there are brewing process type things that supplant the majority of its impact: eliminating copper, iron, etc., using a brew bag as a mash filter to leave proteins and lipids behind in the mash tun, and so on, but for the average user just looking for a convenient way to do some of those things with no process change, I think there is no doubt people will see improvements in their beers using it.

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I do not want to debate this. We each have our positions.  We can agree to disagree.

To illustrate my position, I will use words from another source that I do agree with: “I have no doubt Brewtan B will extend the shelf life of your beer. That is what commercial breweries are very good at. Extending shelf lives. They mainly do it by removing things that aren’t too stable and will oxidize. That doesn’t mean they didn’t taste good to start with. It just means they make it last forever.”

The best beer I’ve ever tasted was enjoyed under the same roof or in the beirgarten of the place where it was brewed (Hausbrauerei). Incidentally, some of the best food as well.

For me, to say commercial brewers use it is all the more reason not to. The shelves are full of beers that will last forever. No thanks. That’s why I brew.

Cheers!

13

No disagreement here. The science is known. The brewer ultimately has to determine whether it will be useful for them. The potential is definitely there.

14

I used the BrewTan B in the first experiment and most people couldn’t tell a difference. I think there was a difference and probably more after some time in the bottle, however when I used it in my German Pilsner it gave the beer a weird grape flavor. I was planning on entering the beer in the NHC. The beer just tasted off, so I didn’t enter it. I’m not sure why it was off, but the only change was the BrewTan B. This result leaves me on the fence, but I’d be willing to give it another shot.

15

What was your dosage?

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It was the recommended dosage for the experiment. I’m not sure off the top of my head, but it was added to the mash, sparge, and boil.