In our ongoing efforts to try and learn everything - and fail miserably - we revisit Denny’s question from Episode 58 about dried lager strains labelled like ale strains. After much listener input, Drew sits down with Bryan Heit of Sui Generis Brewing to get the current scientific picture on yeast genetics. It turns out science makes for really complicated answers! Plus, we talk retirement, rough times for craft brewers, charity and how lasers are making better beer before digging into your questions. Finally, we close out with Denny’s favorite new cooking show!
The yeast stuff is really, truly fascinating. Thanks. (I’m going to just keep calling it “lager yeast.”)
Yeah, me too!
Denny, y’all’s comments got me to look at forums other than HBT! Loved the episode, and while there is still a place for ale vs lager vs brett vs lacto vs pedio I’m falling for the ones that live on the fringes. I love me some 34/70 for a 68° (F, 20°C) lager. I love saison yeasts (looking at you DuPont) for crazy high temps. I am enjoying finding yeast that fits my basement temp rather than fitting my basement temp to my yeast! I kinda like the chaos of what’s a lager, what’s an ale, what’s Belgian, who gives a sh!t…but I’m an oppositional soul so take it with a grain of brewing salt [emoji869][emoji16][emoji482]
Good show, as always! I didn’t understand much of it, but that’s cool.
Lets see if i understand this correctly. What we commonly call Lager Yeast is S. Pastorianus (later given the second incorrect name S. Carlsbergensis) is a combo of S. Cerevisiae and some other yeast maybe S. Uvarum, or maybe S. Bayanus, or maybe S. Monacensis (Still being debated). But since these guys can have the complete genome of both “parents”, or complete genome of S. Cerevisiae and partial genome of S. Uvarum/Bayanus/Monacensis, they might also be named S. Cerevisiae.
Therefore, it would be far more logical and useful if we referred to a strain or genus by its fermentation characteristics, such as Lager or Ale? Or better yet… American lager or ale, English ale, Belgian ale, German lager or ale, etc etc etc… maybe even more definitive than that? Like German hefeweizen yeast, or West Coast ale yeast, or even down to a specific brewery known for using it, like Fullers Yeast?
The scientific naming seems to have its greatest usefulness in talking about where it came from, but doesn’t tell you much about what it will produce.
There is always the good old “Top” or “Bottom” fermenting labels.
Top and bottom gets into fuzzy gradations too. I still like lager and ale; as Jim suggests, it’s clear shorthand for the only thing we really care about: what kind of job it does. "I want a yeast that can make a clean Pils, " or “a really fruity mild ale.” You don’t inquire into its ancestry or preferred reproductive habits. Kind of like hiring an employee!
For me it’s not a distinction that really matters as I only use maybe 4 yeasts, 3 of which are Trappist, and all of which are ale yeast.
A lot of breweries use a variety of yeast strains, so probably the very best “taxonomy” for our purposes would be to name our yeast after its most renowned beer. “In this beer I used Voodoo Doughnut” [emoji6]
Said no one… ever… gah.
HA!
It’s Pacman…lots of people have used it. Although I agree you wouldn’t want to mention Voodoo Donut!
Kevin Lane seemed to touch on the marriage of in his presentation at the 2017 AHA Convention.
Lost me
Sorry. Corrected. He talked about this yeast and that yeast combining to make lager yeast. I found it interesting.