First Lager

[wort-h.o.g]

You pretty much got all the good info already.  If dry yeast is easier, then 34/70. Liquid- I’d try 830 or equivalent.

Keep it simple and let it rip- it should work out just fine for you following everyone’s recommendations.

edit: if you do want it more dry 1.008-009, and single infusion…I’d go about 148-149F for 75-90 minutes.  Little less dry in the 1.010-012 range mash 150-152F .

[maaswinhester (kmccaf)]

@mchrispen

For what it is worth… I would use that local pils. For a first lager shoot for a 1.045-ish gravity, maybe hop to 25-30 IBU with something noble-like, and use that dry yeast. I bet it will be just the hook to drag you into brewing lagers. When you really want to match a style like BoPils, then I think the malt will matter a lot more. Maybe throw a little corn (10-20%) and find some Cluster for a flavorful CAP.

I have really enjoyed this shift. Still love my ales, especially saisons - but something about clean pils character and nearly no detectible esters or phenols from the yeast makes lagers fascinating. And such a great place to feature hop character.

+1 A nice CAP would be a great place to start. 34/40 makes a pretty good one too.

[beersk]

@hopfenundmalz

@beersk

@mchrispen

My thoughts - since you asked. I have been focused entirely on lagers for the last two quarters, but bet this will draw some criticism:

I think anyone who is serious about making these lagers as authentic as possible won’t disagree. Very good post. A pH meter is on my list of upgrades.
If you’re otherwise just into lagers, but not necessarily caring about making a clone of Jahrhundert, then do a single infusion around 152F for 60 minutes, pitch a bunch of yeast at just below planned fermentation temp, let it roll for a couple weeks, ramp it up, keg it and lager for a month.
Otherwise, Matt’s post…and more. I’m not likely to learn German and read Narziss like Bryan is though…

My strategy is to go to Germeny, drink the beer in its setting, and tour more breweries and talk to the Brewers. Makes for a memorable trip.

Not a bad call, at all. I mean, knowing the German language and reading the German brewing texts I’m sure helps. But most people won’t take it that far. Most of those Germans are pretty secretive about their brewing process/recipes from what I gather.
Not everyone is into authenticity, and that’s cool. Matt’s suggestion to use local pils malt is a good call. For me that’d be Rahr and Briess. I’d take Rahr out of those two. I’ve been meaning to try a helles with it juuuust for kicks, even though I far prefer the German malz.

[wort-h.o.g]

@beersk

@hopfenundmalz

@beersk

@mchrispen

My thoughts - since you asked. I have been focused entirely on lagers for the last two quarters, but bet this will draw some criticism:

I think anyone who is serious about making these lagers as authentic as possible won’t disagree. Very good post. A pH meter is on my list of upgrades.
If you’re otherwise just into lagers, but not necessarily caring about making a clone of Jahrhundert, then do a single infusion around 152F for 60 minutes, pitch a bunch of yeast at just below planned fermentation temp, let it roll for a couple weeks, ramp it up, keg it and lager for a month.
Otherwise, Matt’s post…and more. I’m not likely to learn German and read Narziss like Bryan is though…

My strategy is to go to Germeny, drink the beer in its setting, and tour more breweries and talk to the Brewers. Makes for a memorable trip.

Not a bad call, at all. I mean, knowing the German language and reading the German brewing texts I’m sure helps. But most people won’t take it that far. Most of those Germans are pretty secretive about their brewing process/recipes from what I gather.
Not everyone is into authenticity, and that’s cool. Matt’s suggestion to use local pils malt is a good call. For me that’d be Rahr and Briess. I’d take Rahr out of those two. I’ve been meaning to try a helles with it juuuust for kicks, even though I far prefer the German malz.

I wouldn’t say that’s German to be secretive. If you brew to make a living I suppose you would want to protect your proprietary info.

Why not share if you aren’t looking to sell?

[JT]

@goschman

I only have a few lagers under my belt. I have had what I consider great success with a single infusion mash, w34/70, and the accelerated fermentation schedule. Maybe it’s harder to brew a great lager but I was surprised how easy it is to make a good one…

This is exactly me as well, especially the last sentence.  For some reason lagers intimidated me, but now I’m hooked.  I’ve used liquid yeasts too, most recently WLP830 in a German Pils.  I have nothing to add in terms of advice, the bases are well covered here.  Good luck Pete!

[beersk]

@beersk

@hopfenundmalz

@beersk

@mchrispen

My thoughts - since you asked. I have been focused entirely on lagers for the last two quarters, but bet this will draw some criticism:

I think anyone who is serious about making these lagers as authentic as possible won’t disagree. Very good post. A pH meter is on my list of upgrades.
If you’re otherwise just into lagers, but not necessarily caring about making a clone of Jahrhundert, then do a single infusion around 152F for 60 minutes, pitch a bunch of yeast at just below planned fermentation temp, let it roll for a couple weeks, ramp it up, keg it and lager for a month.
Otherwise, Matt’s post…and more. I’m not likely to learn German and read Narziss like Bryan is though…

My strategy is to go to Germeny, drink the beer in its setting, and tour more breweries and talk to the Brewers. Makes for a memorable trip.

Not a bad call, at all. I mean, knowing the German language and reading the German brewing texts I’m sure helps. But most people won’t take it that far. Most of those Germans are pretty secretive about their brewing process/recipes from what I gather.
Not everyone is into authenticity, and that’s cool. Matt’s suggestion to use local pils malt is a good call. For me that’d be Rahr and Briess. I’d take Rahr out of those two. I’ve been meaning to try a helles with it juuuust for kicks, even though I far prefer the German malz.

I wouldn’t say that’s German to be secretive. If you brew to make a living I suppose you would want to protect your proprietary info.

Why not share if you aren’t looking to sell?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Head over to that German brewing forum. Plenty has been shared.
But, some of the cool brewers will share their sh*t because they know that the customers will keep coming back anyway. You just can’t brew it the same as the brewery because it’s different equipment, water, ingredients, etc. So many variables involved.

[wort-h.o.g]

@beersk

@beersk

@hopfenundmalz

@beersk

@mchrispen

My thoughts - since you asked. I have been focused entirely on lagers for the last two quarters, but bet this will draw some criticism:

I think anyone who is serious about making these lagers as authentic as possible won’t disagree. Very good post. A pH meter is on my list of upgrades.
If you’re otherwise just into lagers, but not necessarily caring about making a clone of Jahrhundert, then do a single infusion around 152F for 60 minutes, pitch a bunch of yeast at just below planned fermentation temp, let it roll for a couple weeks, ramp it up, keg it and lager for a month.
Otherwise, Matt’s post…and more. I’m not likely to learn German and read Narziss like Bryan is though…

My strategy is to go to Germeny, drink the beer in its setting, and tour more breweries and talk to the Brewers. Makes for a memorable trip.

Not a bad call, at all. I mean, knowing the German language and reading the German brewing texts I’m sure helps. But most people won’t take it that far. Most of those Germans are pretty secretive about their brewing process/recipes from what I gather.
Not everyone is into authenticity, and that’s cool. Matt’s suggestion to use local pils malt is a good call. For me that’d be Rahr and Briess. I’d take Rahr out of those two. I’ve been meaning to try a helles with it juuuust for kicks, even though I far prefer the German malz.

I wouldn’t say that’s German to be secretive. If you brew to make a living I suppose you would want to protect your proprietary info.

Why not share if you aren’t looking to sell?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Head over to that German brewing forum. Plenty has been shared.
But, some of the cool brewers will share their sh*t because they know that the customers will keep coming back anyway. You just can’t brew it the same as the brewery because it’s different equipment, water, ingredients, etc. So many variables involved.

Been there…still cloak and dagger IMO.

[beersk]

I totally get what you mean. Just brew and have fun. The beauty of the hobby is we can do what we want. If we really want THAT GERMAN LAGER FLAVOR, we have to get knee deep into it. But not everyone is that way, so that’s cool too. I’m still trying to figure out if I’m really ready to wade into that knee-deepness of sh*t. I’m on the fence… I like simplicity and symmetry in everything in life…

[wort-h.o.g]

I have a Pilsner right now that IMO has it. It’s tight. Reminds me of the day’s living in Germany cracking a fresh bottle of pils.

Edit: if anyone who has some interest, some experience with fresh German pils and willing to receive a bottle and provide some honest feedback, PM me and I will ship you a bottle…first 3-4.  I’d welcome any thoughts.

[hopfenundmalz]

@beersk

@hopfenundmalz

@beersk

@mchrispen

My thoughts - since you asked. I have been focused entirely on lagers for the last two quarters, but bet this will draw some criticism:

I think anyone who is serious about making these lagers as authentic as possible won’t disagree. Very good post. A pH meter is on my list of upgrades.
If you’re otherwise just into lagers, but not necessarily caring about making a clone of Jahrhundert, then do a single infusion around 152F for 60 minutes, pitch a bunch of yeast at just below planned fermentation temp, let it roll for a couple weeks, ramp it up, keg it and lager for a month.
Otherwise, Matt’s post…and more. I’m not likely to learn German and read Narziss like Bryan is though…

My strategy is to go to Germeny, drink the beer in its setting, and tour more breweries and talk to the Brewers. Makes for a memorable trip.

Not a bad call, at all. I mean, knowing the German language and reading the German brewing texts I’m sure helps. But most people won’t take it that far. Most of those Germans are pretty secretive about their brewing process/recipes from what I gather.
Not everyone is into authenticity, and that’s cool. Matt’s suggestion to use local pils malt is a good call. For me that’d be Rahr and Briess. I’d take Rahr out of those two. I’ve been meaning to try a helles with it juuuust for kicks, even though I far prefer the German malz.

It has not been my experience, if you talk about your process, a picture of my brilliant Pils got a lot of questions as to filtering (no) and how it got so clear. My answer was largering at -1C, and having a short path for the proteins, yeast,a nod polyphenols to drop. If you can talk with some some technical background, and speak a little of the language, they may be of the opinion that you are not just another tourist.

[pete_baker (pete b)]

So I’m doing this lager thing tomorrow. I’m going with the local malt. Here’s what I have so far:
90% Valley Malt Pils
10% Valley Malt Vienna
(or should I do 100% pils?)
WY2124
Hops: here’s what I have that might be appropriate: Hallertau, spalt, saaz. Haven’t decided that yet. Only one oz saaz, two each of others. Thought?

My approach is single infusion mash lowish (150?)
Haven’t run numbers on salts but probably just a wee bit of gypsum for my water.
75 minute boil
Hops scheme that gets me 35ish ibu and I would like a late addition
2 liter starter of wy2124 pitched after going crazy with the mix-stir, ferment at 48-50 , do a D-rest in the 60s, lager for how long I can stand, maybe 4-6 weeks.

[pete_baker (pete b)]

The final recipe was this:
100% Pilsner Malt (local) Infusion mash 151f
1.055 OG
Spalt/hallertau 38 ibus
WY2124 fermented at 48f currently in d-rest at 63f, plan on lagering a few weeks.

I don’t know my lagers, so just curious, what would you call this.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

The final recipe was this:
100% Pilsner Malt (local) Infusion mash 151f
1.055 OG
Spalt/hallertau 38 ibus
WY2124 fermented at 48f currently in d-rest at 63f, plan on lagering a few weeks.

I don’t know my lagers, so just curious, what would you call this.

It’d pass for German Pils. Or Dortmunder Lager. Either way sounds good, Pete.

[hopfenundmalz]

The final recipe was this:
100% Pilsner Malt (local) Infusion mash 151f
1.055 OG
Spalt/hallertau 38 ibus
WY2124 fermented at 48f currently in d-rest at 63f, plan on lagering a few weeks.

I don’t know my lagers, so just curious, what would you call this.

German Pils. The malts my not be exactly German, but the hops and yeast are.

[pete_baker (pete b)]

@hopfenundmalz

The final recipe was this:
100% Pilsner Malt (local) Infusion mash 151f
1.055 OG
Spalt/hallertau 38 ibus
WY2124 fermented at 48f currently in d-rest at 63f, plan on lagering a few weeks.

I don’t know my lagers, so just curious, what would you call this.

German Pils. The malts my not be exactly German, but the hops and yeast are.

I just ordered enough weyerman pils so I can make a small batch of the same recipe so I can compare the continental to my local pils.

[pete_baker (pete b)]

The final recipe was this:
100% Pilsner Malt (local) Infusion mash 151f
1.055 OG
Spalt/hallertau 38 ibus
WY2124 fermented at 48f currently in d-rest at 63f, plan on lagering a few weeks.

I don’t know my lagers, so just curious, what would you call this.

Thanks Jon. So far so good. The only bump in the road is that I missed the memo about when to start the d-rest. Its at 63 for past two days but its at 1.011. Does that matter? FWIW there seems to be a lot of yeast in suspension still.

It’d pass for German Pils. Or Dortmunder Lager. Either way sounds good, Pete.

[hopfenundmalz]

The final recipe was this:
100% Pilsner Malt (local) Infusion mash 151f
1.055 OG
Spalt/hallertau 38 ibus
WY2124 fermented at 48f currently in d-rest at 63f, plan on lagering a few weeks.

I don’t know my lagers, so just curious, what would you call this.

Thanks Jon. So far so good. The only bump in the road is that I missed the memo about when to start the d-rest. Its at 63 for past two days but its at 1.011. Does that matter? FWIW there seems to be a lot of yeast in suspension still.

It’d pass for German Pils. Or Dortmunder Lager. Either way sounds good, Pete.

You should be fine. I take mine up to 68F for the D rest, as temp converts more.

[pete_baker (pete b)]

@hopfenundmalz

The final recipe was this:
100% Pilsner Malt (local) Infusion mash 151f
1.055 OG
Spalt/hallertau 38 ibus
WY2124 fermented at 48f currently in d-rest at 63f, plan on lagering a few weeks.

I don’t know my lagers, so just curious, what would you call this.

Thanks Jon. So far so good. The only bump in the road is that I missed the memo about when to start the d-rest. Its at 63 for past two days but its at 1.011. Does that matter? FWIW there seems to be a lot of yeast in suspension still.

It’d pass for German Pils. Or Dortmunder Lager. Either way sounds good, Pete.

You should be fine. I take mine up to 68F for the D rest, as temp converts more.

Good to know ,Jeff. I’ll warm it up a little more for 1 or two days and then bring back down.

[klickitat_jim]

Agreed Pils or Dort, which will depend on perception in the glass. Also which pils depending on perception of the water profile.

What ya going to do with the yeast? Ive been having great luck with a 1000-1200ml oxygenated non-stired starter. I chill the starter wort to temp by placing it in my chest the night before. Then I oxygenate and put the yeast in, cover with foil and leave it in the chest while I brew. I oxygenate the wort after its chilled to temp, and when the starter has had 12hrs I pitch the whole thing.

I’ve been hitting the 50% ADF mark at about 3-4 days, when I set the controller to 68F. At about day 10 I pull a gravity sample, and after my gravity reading, I heat it to about 170F in the microwave and smell for diacetyl. Normally there is no diacetyl, but on rare occasion it takes until my last gravity reading (2 same readings 3 days apart).

Then I crash to 30F, and hit it with gell.

Not saying you have to do it this way, just tossing it out there.

Have fun

[pete_baker (pete b)]

@klickitat_jim

Agreed Pils or Dort, which will depend on perception in the glass. Also which pils depending on perception of the water profile.

What ya going to do with the yeast? Ive been having great luck with a 1000-1200ml oxygenated non-stired starter. I chill the starter wort to temp by placing it in my chest the night before. Then I oxygenate and put the yeast in, cover with foil and leave it in the chest while I brew. I oxygenate the wort after its chilled to temp, and when the starter has had 12hrs I pitch the whole thing.

I’ve been hitting the 50% ADF mark at about 3-4 days, when I set the controller to 68F. At about day 10 I pull a gravity sample, and after my gravity reading, I heat it to about 170F in the microwave and smell for diacetyl. Normally there is no diacetyl, but on rare occasion it takes until my last gravity reading (2 same readings 3 days apart).

Then I crash to 30F, and hit it with gell.

Not saying you have to do it this way, just tossing it out there.

Have fun

I think you missed a post Jim. I’m already at d-rest. I did a traditional 2 liter stir plate starter that I cold crashed and decanted. BTW what are readily available commercial examples of a dort and german pils?