i’m actually primarily avangard pils…not best…cant get that here. But I also like weyermann malts quite a bit. Recently brewed pils with barke pils malt…like it a lot. I’m also fond of blending the malts-adds a little complexity and something different.
I’d go right after a pils with 835 and then go from there. simple and you’ll know for sure if you have the process down or not.
I love Best Malz, but it is harder for me to get, so I make most of my lagers with Avengard or Weyermann - floor malted is super! Helles with a floor malted is a wonderful beer.
I just purchased a sack of Best to do my first Lager (95% pils, 5% carahell, saaz, and 34/70) and was pleasantly surprised at the aroma (smelled awesome when I opened it) and flavor when chewing the malt. I used a sack of avangard pils for Belgian beers over the past year that all turned out great as well.
-Tony
I got a good sized one at Sears that had all the coils in the body and I am able to rearrange the shelves however I want. I also use an outside temperature controller to keep it at 48-50: perfect for brewing lagers and storing real ale.
After looking over some recipes, I’m leaning towards Kai’s Schwarzbier recipe, or a riff on that theme. Already have some of the ingredients, so it should be a good starting point. If all goes well, I might try and repitch into a helles bock of some sort. I am fairly confident in my ability to pull off a decent lager on my first try, so I might go and make a pils. We’ll see.
Did some more reading on here, I’m going with Toby’s reptile heater option for a heat source.
I ordered a bag of Weyermann pils malt, Best was harder/more expensive to get.
I plan on doing 1L shaken/not stirred starters, but I’m considering keeping them cool, rather than running at room temp. This process has made an incredible difference in lag time/yeast performance for my ales, and I want to try this with lagers.
I have not yet attempted a lager starter in this fashion, but can only tell you that I have had awesome results pitching from stir plate starters with a ton of yeast. Then repitching the slurry for best results.
I know that S. Cerevisiae was adamant that the same process would work for both ales and lagers.
That being said, I do plan on altering the process slightly, as I mentioned above. I’ll keep the starter at whatever my initial fermentation temp will be, and pitch them into same-temperature wort at high krausen.
What I’m also wondering is if I should stick to a 5 gallon batch, or make this also be my inaugural 10-gallon batch. Or maybe do some sort of double brew day, run two lagers in the chest freezer at the same time? Would it even be feasible to tie two separate beers to the same fermentation/lagering schedule?
This is the way I do it all the time. Right now I have two 6 gallon batches in the same chest, temp probe on one of them. They are relatively same gravity, one is 1.048 the other 1.055. Both lagers. Both chilled to 48F and oxygenated. Both pitched with 1L oxygenated non-stir active starters. Works like a charm every time.
Jim is there a thread where you describe your process in more detail? Do you decant for your lagers or just go ahead and pitch the starter wort since you’re not oxygenating it with the “vortex of doom”? I saw a few references to the SnS method but I never got the full run-down and searching for the right thread has lead me down some rabbit holes.
Here’s the original thread on the subject, I don’t know if this is one of the ones you’d mentioned or not:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24460.0
Thanks! Hadn’t found that one. That should get me caught up so I can ask better questions.
Cool, I might try that then. Maybe a Dunkel and a Boh Pils?
Boh pils is something I’ve been thinking about for a while. I’d like to do an all pils malt one, then use decoction to darken the color a bit. Don’t want to do a protein rest, so I’m thinking something along the lines of Hochkurz, rests at mid 140s, decoct to upper 150s, then decoct again to 170.
Can’t answer all your questions but as far as a style goes, I’d just say that IMHO the Pilsners (German & Czech) have been the hardest to get “right.” I don’t know if it is something about the real simple grain bill, the hopping, the water - I’ve made good Pils but not great yet, in my 10 years brewing. But something tilted more to the malt side of things… they seem to be a little more forgiving. I’d recommend Kai’s Helles (you’ve had my version of it), a Vienna, a Dunkel, or a Schwarz as a “first lager.”
Grains: I’ve been happy with Best over the years but have started brewing with Avangard the last few months. Can’t say if it’s better or worse, it seems to work for me. Either one has always been cheaper than Weyermann, for me, so I go with that.
Temp Control: I have two Johnson A419’s that have run pretty much all the time for 10 years. Bear in mind that while there are now newer fancier looking temp controls targeted to the homebrewer market the Johnsons are built for industrial factory-level control systems and will not let you down. (I’m not trying to impugn other controllers but you won’t see them on a factory floor or assembly line most likely.)
Here is what I do. The day before brewday I set my chest freezer temp control to the temp I’m going to ferment at. So usually 65F ales 50F lagers, and I place my starter wort in there to get it to the desired temp by brewday. I premake my starter wort by pressure canning in 2qt jars.
On the morning of brewday, I sanize a 2L flask and pour in starter wort to 1000ml sometimes 1200ml. I then oxygenate with pure O2 at a mederate rate that makes fine bubbles, until the bubbles nearly fill the flask. Then add the yeast. I cover in foil and give it a little shake, then set it back in the temp control chest.
Then I brew. At about 8hrs I pitch ales, in about 12hrs I pitch lagers. I pitch the whole shebang, gently swirling the last little bit to get the layer of yeast that has settled. But most of the yeast is always still in suspension. I call this High Krausen, but its probably more like Low Krausen. Whatever the term, the yeast are well into exponential growth phase and thats all I care about.
I do a version of the quick ferment, so at 50% apparent degree of fermentation, I increase temp. Ales go from 65F to 72F. Lagers go from 50F to 68F. I pull a hydrometer sample at day 3 and always I have reached 50% by that time, with the exception of these last lagers which the yeast was 5 months old and at day 3 there was absolutely no change in gravity.
The keys are healthy yeast, oxygenation of the starter and the main wort. By the way, this is not MY method, and pitching active yeast is not a new idea. The main worry seems to be from folks who think the 1L is diluting the beer. I suppose on some laboratory level it is, but I have not been able to detect it nor have many people who have tasted my beer, including folks like the Director and Assistant Director of Ed from the BJCP.
I do this because its easy, and it works like a champ. I’m not sharing this to try to get others to do what I do. I’d be just fine if I was the only one. [emoji6]
Very cool. Sounds like it’s been successful for you and definitely sounds easy and logical enough to be worth a try for me. Thanks for the details!
You bet
Hey, Jim - do you Evers-pitch directly anymore? I agree that the starter is the best route, but a fresh repitch works pretty good for a few generations, too.
I gotta start canning wort!
I don’t, but not because I’m opposed to it. Between gell fining and dry hopping and brewing different beers, I’ve just been going the route of convenience and not storing yeast.
Curious if you’ve had any positive/negative experience with using gelatin in the keg. I tend to do it that way so I can repitch with the yeast scavenged from the fermentor. It seems to have worked for me so far in that it basically just “consolidates” the normal settling process into less time and maybe one suboptimal pint (instead of a few if I’m just waiting).
FWIW I always use gelatin in the keg and get great results. After a couple days I pump out half a pint of sludge and it’s clear after.