I have 5 gallons of Flanders Red that’s been in the fermenteezer for almost two weeks. I’m about to tuck it away in a closet for the next year and have a couple questions.
Should I leave the beer in the primary carboy with the oak chips and the pellicle for the entire fermentation or rack to a clean carboy at some point?
I was thinking about whittling an oak stopper for the carboy to replace the airlock now that fermentation has slowed down. I read that this will allow oxygen to penetrate the headspace and aid in the development of sour characteristics. Have folks had good results with this technique? Anyone ever blown up a carboy from pressurizing it by using an oak stopper?
Any Flanders tips are welcome.
Rack it to secondary before tucking it away. Lambic is really the only fermentation profile that benefits from autolyzed and trub.
When you add oak chips it depends on your preference for oak flavors in the style. I really like the vanilla character in mine, so I add cubes when I rack to secondary. I use 0.25 oz or so since it will still sit on them a long time, but so I dont have to pull a lot of samples to taste for oak when I know the beer isn’t nearly ready. A little goes a long way for a Flanders, and it isn’t necessarily traditional to have a lot of oak character, so judges can ding you for it.
I always err on the side of keeping as much O2 out as I can through conditioning. Acetic WILL develop over time, so don’t worry about an oak stopper. Use a rubber stopper w/ filled airlock since you will get some gas evolution over time.
If the beer is ready and it doesnt have enough acetic for your liking, you can doctor it with actual vinegar (or older flanders as you brew more).
If its for a competition, judges are many times over-sensitive to acetic. I doubt a judge will comment “boy, this could SURE use some more vinegar!”
Limit samples. I don’t even touch it for 6 months.
This doesn’t really help you now, but I’d look into the fast lacto method of making sour beers. A lot of people say you need extended aging, but with the fast lacto method I’ve made sours better than many commercial sours, though not better than the best commercial sours. You can dial in the acidity really well with that method. I’ve had some homebrewed sours that went way past “sour” to the point where they were hard to drink.
Basically, you can make a clean sour this way in about one or two days longer than a “normal” beer, and if you want to use Brett that cuts the time down to about 2-3 months, vs 12-18 months for “traditional” souring.
Silicone bung? Well, that sounds better than sanding down a hunk of oak.
I pitched with Roeselare blend and added my oak to the primary so everything that needs to go in is in. Thats why I’m wondering about the necessity of racking it off of the yeast and the sludge in neck of the headspace.
I’d love to keep it rolling but I’ll need to carefully plan my sour fermentations so as not to take over all of the closet space. That would be agressive following the assimilation of the garage. :
I thought that the bugs go in prior to aging to produce the sour.
Or, are you saying that you:
-do a primary yeast fermentation
-rack to second carboy
-add bugs
-secondary/aging
I’m just trying to decide if at this point I will make a better beer by leaving everything in the primary carboy for the duration or if there is a reason I should transfer to a new carboy since I won’t be adding more bugs or oak. (unless I rack, then I’ll need to add more oak)
As I recall, the book “Wild Brews” suggests not racking the beer at all for either lambic or Flanders reds to give the Brett something to eat over the course of the 1 - 2 year fermentation. My latest attempt scored pretty well in a recent competition and I just pitched a pack of Wyeast Roselare blend right at the beginning and let it go. After 15 months I racked it, not to get rid of the yeast, but because I wanted to clear out that carboy for a different beer and I wanted to add some heavy toast oak chips for the last 7 months.
Leaving it on the trub is normally a lambic procedure, where Brett is a much more dominant component. Lambic is conditioned much longer, and the trub/yeast cake aids the Brett in continuing to produce esters and reduce diacetyl produced by Pedio. Since Flanders beers are primarily soured with Lacto, the conditioning period can be shorter and does not rely on a Pedio/Brett combo.
That being said - if you like a Funky and more acidic Flanders, GO FOR IT.
Yep, this exactly. I typically use 1056 for the primary. Mash high, don’t aerate, underpitch, ferment cold. I leave lots of stuff for the Roeselare blend to work on when it goes in. I might just go straight with Roeselare next time, but the method above works well.
The first batch of flander’s I made didn’t turn out nearly sour enough for my tastes. I fermented with 1056 and added the Roselare bugs in the secondary and inserted a rubber stopper with an oak dowel in it. The second batch I made I pitched directly on the bugs and added a pack of US05, let it ferment out and tranferred when the pellicle fell after 1 year. That beer took 2nd at the NHC this year.
I’ve heard from other brewers that the 1st generation of Roselaere isn’t sour enough, the 2nd generation is just right and 3rd generation is too sour. YMMV.
Congrats!
So wait, you pitched round 2 on top of the bugs left from round 1 (year old)?
Also, do you rack after primary or do you complete all fermentation and aging in one carboy?
The first batch I racked to a secondary and added the bugs. The second batch I pitched on the the 1 yr old bugs. The second flanders I completed all fermentation in one carboy and transferred after the pellicle dropped.
When I do sours I generally primary with yeast and rack to a secondary after 3 or 4 days and pitch the bugs. I use an Oak bung that I fashioned. I really like the results, especially in lambics. To me it lets enough O2 in but not to much. Never had a broke carboy, although the bung does expand quite a bit after a year and it can be a bit difficult to pull out when you eventually take it out.
I think this thread is another example that theres more than 1 way to de-intigument a feline. Do what works for you
I pitched bugs and Brett in the secondary as well and didn’t get enough sourness for my tastes, so I adjusted by adding a little bit of lactic acid. My next batch everything goes into the primary. The commercial examples of this style are really all over the place as far as sourness and Brett character, so you really have to dial it in or blend for your own tastes IMHO.
Thanks for all the good info, guys! I’m looking into doing 10 gallons of Flanders Red/Brown before the end of the year and splitting it with Roeselare and WLP665.
I’ve been blown away at the results by doing a fast-lacto souring upfront, combined with wine yeast (for underattenuation) and Brett, and fractional blending to taste. I know I’m a heretic and I know everyone else disagrees with me, but the Flanders Red I made that way was better than any other Flanders Red, commercial or homebrew, I’ve ever had, and it only took about 4 months.
You can use the wayback machine to find a copy of Raj’s article.
