Golden Sour

This is my first time posting here so hello! I do just a little brewing. Have one recipe I’ve used for 5 years I like a lot. Anyway to the point I tried a beer the other day from a local brewery and I have decided I want to give it a go at creating something like it. So here’s what I have. It was a golden ale aged with blackberries and French oak. So I have spent some time today putting this together.

I found a Golden Ale recipe that sounds like it would work

OG. 1.049
FG.  1.006
IBU. 1-2. Shooting for 2 as the beer I tried was a 2
ABV. 5.25%

6lb 10oz Pilsner
1lb 2oz.  Wheat Malt
9oz.        Franco-Belges Aromatic malt
9oz.        Flaked oats
9oz.        Spelt malt
.125oz.    Strisselspalt hops @ 60min

Yeast WLP001 California Ale

So here’s where I need some input. The beer I tried was 6.3 ABV. So I would need to bump that up a little. The biggest issue I have is getting into a secondary ferment with Brettanomyces. I’ve got the concept of how to add the black berries. I’m going to use French oak chips to get the oak aged flavor they had. Adding the Brett??? Do I make a starter and add this into the secondary when I rack it? Just need some advice on this as well as any critiquing. This will be a pretty big challenge to pull this off and I’m looking forward to it.

The beer I’m kinda trying to clone or let’s say make something similar to gave a fair amount of info on the back of the bottle.

Golden Ale
Primary: Yeast Saccharomyces
Conditioning Yeast: Brettanomyces
ABV 6.3
Ph 3.5
IBU 2

They racked it to secondary and aged it for 12 months in a French oak barrel. Then bottled aged it after that.

I felt the urge to brew and I’m up for a challenge. I do pretty good with my other all-grain recipes. I have not messed with pitching a second yeast, adding wood chips and so on to a secondary.

Big tanks in advance for any advice!!

All you need to do is add wood chips to secondary, rack your beer and add a fresh vial/pack of brett. You won’t need a starter.

This.  Having done a 12 month French oak aged blackberry Brett beer, I’d recommend a spiral over the chips, but your choice.

“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

Are you sure the IBU is 2? That’s not even enough to provide antibacterial effect. I’m not even sure that’s enough to clear federal minimums for hopping rates. (Not a concern for homebrew but for the brewery that inspired you.)

The have hoping rates based on 7.5 Lbs/100 barrels. No IBU requirement.

Edit doing the math shows that would be ~0.2 Oz for a 5 gallon batch.

Edit 2 - the brewery may have really low AA Strisselspalt.

If the beer your wanting to replicate is the Blackberry Farm Brewery Barrel Series Brett Fruit Blend (2016), then it would likely have an IBU level close to 25ibus.  In addition, I would change the title of the thread to something that indicates it’s a “golden sour” you’re after because a “golden ale” is generally thought of as something quite different (i.e. a hoppy british beer).

A starting point might be to use The Rare Barrel’s golden sour base recipe (basically what you posted in the OP), and add wine-tainted french oak (or wine+oak) plus fruit to the secondary. The Rare Barrel - Milk The Funk Wiki

I would stay clear of 25ibus unless you have some strong Brett.

Brett doesn’t mind IBUs; and pedio’s pretty okay up to about the 20-25 range. Lacto might not do so well up there, but Brett doesn’t care.

My bad.

Updated the title. Thank you!

WOW! Thanks for all the great info. The beer that I am trying to replicate is from Sweetwater The Woodlands Project - Through the Brambles. Its a Blackberry Sour Ale. The IBUs are for sure 2 according to there label. I have already been looking for the spirals. Jay Goodwin designed the Golden Ale base I was wanting to use. He also used brett in a secondary on this. Since it matched so closely to what I tried less the fruit and french wood I figured what the heck.

This is where I got the idea of the recipe.

It just dawned on me, the brewery could also add the required amount of hops late and get the low IBU.

Im going to mess around with it in beer smith and see what I can do. I enjoy creating a recipe as much as brewing it. I get a lot of satisfaction in that.

The TTB requirement comes to 0.2 Oz for 5 gallons. Plug that in at later times, using the AA you have, and see where it hits 2. It might be at 20, 15, 10 minutes, or whatever.

Let us know what you decide.

From The Grumble

Blackberry Sour Ale (17 F)

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.80 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.99 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 4.60 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 10 Jul 2017
Brewer: Mike
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Pot and Cooler ( 5 Gal/19 L) - All Grain
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.8 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs 10.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) UK (1.0 SRM) Grain 1 61.3 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 23.1 %
9.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.2 %
9.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.2 %
9.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5 5.2 %
0.30 oz Strisslespalt [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 2.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 7 -
1.0 pkg Brettanomyces claussenii (Wyeast Labs #WY5151) [50.28 ml] [Add to Secondary] Yeast 8 -
4.50 lb Blackberry Puree (Secondary 120.0 days) Other 9 -
1.00 Items French Oak Spiral (Secondary 90.0 days) Flavor 10 -
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.6 %
Bitterness: 2.0 IBUs
Est Color: 4.5 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Sparge Water: 4.97 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Est Mash PH: 5.71
Measured Mash PH: 5.20
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 13.0 oz
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Target Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Acid Addition:
Sparge Acid Addition:
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 13.51 qt of water at 170.6 F 155.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.97 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle
Pressure/Weight: 3.61 oz
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Fermenter:
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Est: Bottle with 3.61 oz Corn Sugar
Carbonation (from Meas Vol): Bottle with 3.93 oz Corn Sugar
Age for: 360.00 days
Storage Temperature: 68.0 F
Notes

Created with BeerSmith

Here’s a little better draft of what I’m thinking. Also the aromatic grain??? Will it make a big difference using what I picked over the recommended Franco-Belges?

I meant those as somewhat independent points and did a poor job distinguishing them. You’re right they would have to make a very late addition to get to 2 IBUs. If I saw that IBU number I’d check to make sure it isn’t missing a digit. I know some breweries out there are doing 0 IBU kettle sours and dry hopping to hit the digits so it may be the correct number.

At 2 IBU, absent other antimicrobial ingredients, the beer has little protection from microbes that can create some pretty bad flavors and textures, even in sour beer. Like the 0 IBU kettle sours I know there is a stream of thought currently that approves of that process, but I’ve tasted enough bad sour beer to think differently.

I didn’t have the AA set right. Going to be .6 oz as they are 1.8-2.5 AA

I just want to point out that Brett is not necessarily going to get you a sour beer.  It can produce some acidity, and with a tart fruit added and the tannins from the wood you might get what you’re looking for.  I haven’t had the source beer but if it’s legitimately sour, lacto/pedio is probably the cause.

This ^^and what other reason would there be to have the hopping rate so minimal besides using lacto/pedio.