gypsum and calcium chloride usage

[MattyAHA]

when brewing with RO or distilled water do you need to use both gypsum and calcium chloride? or is it dependent on the style you are brewing? for example if you are brewing a pilsner all you need is calcium chloride and if brewing a IPA all you need is gypsum correct? also i heard gypsum or rather the sulfates from gypsum dont mesh well with noble hops and create a harsh bitterness, but at what amount? if you have say 20-50ppm sulfate that should not be enough to make the noble hops harsh right? we are talking 100+ ppm to get harshness anyway thank you have a great day cheers

[denny]

@MattyAHA

when brewing with RO or distilled water do you need to use both gypsum and calcium chloride? or is it dependent on the style you are brewing? for example if you are brewing a pilsner all you need is calcium chloride and if brewing a IPA all you need is gypsum correct? also i heard gypsum or rather the sulfates from gypsum dont mesh well with noble hops and create a harsh bitterness, but at what amount? if you have say 20-50ppm sulfate that should not be enough to make the noble hops harsh right? we are talking 100+ ppm to get harshness anyway thank you have a great day cheers

It depends entirely on the beer you’re brewing.  It’s a myth that a pils shouldn’t have sulfate…I prefer German pils and a decent level is necessary for those.  I have never found sulfate to make noble hops harsh, even at levels of 50 ppm.  Dude, where do you this stuff?  ;)  Go download Bru’nwater, read the water knowledge page, and learn to use it!  Shoot me an email if you need help.

[MattyAHA]

@denny

@MattyAHA

when brewing with RO or distilled water do you need to use both gypsum and calcium chloride? or is it dependent on the style you are brewing? for example if you are brewing a pilsner all you need is calcium chloride and if brewing a IPA all you need is gypsum correct? also i heard gypsum or rather the sulfates from gypsum dont mesh well with noble hops and create a harsh bitterness, but at what amount? if you have say 20-50ppm sulfate that should not be enough to make the noble hops harsh right? we are talking 100+ ppm to get harshness anyway thank you have a great day cheers

It depends entirely on the beer you’re brewing.  It’s a myth that a pils shouldn’t have sulfate…I prefer German pils and a decent level is necessary for those.  I have never found sulfate to make noble hops harsh, even at levels of 50 ppm.  Dude, where do you this stuff?  ;)  Go download Bru’nwater, read the water knowledge page, and learn to use it!  Shoot me an email if you need help.

Thank you Denny appreciate it, i actually heard that from someone on HBT anyway when i brew pilsners i shoot for 50ppm calcium, 75ppm chloride and around 50-60 ppm sulfate, have yet to make a great pilsner maybe if i balance the chloride/sulfate to equal ppms?

[mabrungard]

As Denny points out, No Sulfate in European lagers is a total myth!!  It was proposed by one of my co-contributors on the Water book. It is not borne out by ANY data…just one person’s skewed and flawed perception. Noble or not, its false.

With that said, don’t go overboard with sulfate unless you want the beer finish to be drying.

[MattyAHA]

Thank you Martin, what would you consider an overboard amount of sulfate in a german pilsner?

[mabrungard]

I and others have found that the Jever profile in Bru’n Water works well in a GP.

[Robertestein05_gmail.com (Robert)]

@mabrungard

I and others have found that the Jever profile in Bru’n Water works well in a GP.

+1

[goose]

@mabrungard

I and others have found that the Jever profile in Bru’n Water works well in a GP.

+1 as well

[denny]

@mabrungard

I and others have found that the Jever profile in Bru’n Water works well in a GP.

That’s exactly what I use for my G pils and it works wonderfully.

[denny]

@MattyAHA

@denny

@MattyAHA

when brewing with RO or distilled water do you need to use both gypsum and calcium chloride? or is it dependent on the style you are brewing? for example if you are brewing a pilsner all you need is calcium chloride and if brewing a IPA all you need is gypsum correct? also i heard gypsum or rather the sulfates from gypsum dont mesh well with noble hops and create a harsh bitterness, but at what amount? if you have say 20-50ppm sulfate that should not be enough to make the noble hops harsh right? we are talking 100+ ppm to get harshness anyway thank you have a great day cheers

It depends entirely on the beer you’re brewing.  It’s a myth that a pils shouldn’t have sulfate…I prefer German pils and a decent level is necessary for those.  I have never found sulfate to make noble hops harsh, even at levels of 50 ppm.  Dude, where do you this stuff?  ;)  Go download Bru’nwater, read the water knowledge page, and learn to use it!  Shoot me an email if you need help.

Thank you Denny appreciate it, i actually heard that from someone on HBT anyway when i brew pilsners i shoot for 50ppm calcium, 75ppm chloride and around 50-60 ppm sulfate, have yet to make a great pilsner maybe if i balance the chloride/sulfate to equal ppms?

Unfortunately, somehow the majority of people on HBT blindly follow one person’s flawed advice on water.

[system]

@denny

@MattyAHA

@denny

@MattyAHA

when brewing with RO or distilled water do you need to use both gypsum and calcium chloride? or is it dependent on the style you are brewing? for example if you are brewing a pilsner all you need is calcium chloride and if brewing a IPA all you need is gypsum correct? also i heard gypsum or rather the sulfates from gypsum dont mesh well with noble hops and create a harsh bitterness, but at what amount? if you have say 20-50ppm sulfate that should not be enough to make the noble hops harsh right? we are talking 100+ ppm to get harshness anyway thank you have a great day cheers

It depends entirely on the beer you’re brewing.  It’s a myth that a pils shouldn’t have sulfate…I prefer German pils and a decent level is necessary for those.  I have never found sulfate to make noble hops harsh, even at levels of 50 ppm.  Dude, where do you this stuff?  ;)  Go download Bru’nwater, read the water knowledge page, and learn to use it!  Shoot me an email if you need help.

Thank you Denny appreciate it, i actually heard that from someone on HBT anyway when i brew pilsners i shoot for 50ppm calcium, 75ppm chloride and around 50-60 ppm sulfate, have yet to make a great pilsner maybe if i balance the chloride/sulfate to equal ppms?

Unfortunately, somehow the majority of people on HBT blindly follow one person’s flawed advice on water.

I’ve gotten some great advice from a certain someone in the Brew Science forum at HBT. Great discussions on pH estimation, water knowledge, water chemistry, etc. are constantly going on over there. In the past year, we have had some pretty great discussions, specifically touching on the topic of charge conservation when calculating a mash’s Acid/base characteristics.

Very good stuff.