Ken, Assuming that the new chiller didn’t have some manufacturing residue on it, I’d also consider over-sparging as a contributor to the astringency. I have to stop my runoff at a brix of 3 to 4 in order to avoid tannin extraction when I brew. The common lore for stopping runoff is 2 brix.
I now use less water for sparging and top off my kettle to the proper pre-boil volume with the remaining sparging volume.
It’s hard to say what kinds of flavors might be created by manufacturing oils, especially if the SMB reacted with it, but I don’t think what you describe is inconsistent with what I would expect.
Isopropyl alcohol is good at dissolving oils. I’d clean the outside with it and run as much as you can through the chiller to get out any residues that might be present. Then wash it like heck with water at least until it no longer smells like isopropyl alcohol. Then try testing it in water and see if that tastes different from prior tests. If it’s different then that strongly suggests that as your cause.
Unfortunately if that’s the case you probably can’t cure that batch of beer. If the filter barfed up a bunch of sludge into the beer then maybe it will settle out with time.
Thanks Martin. Can I assume this only applies to fly-sparging? I’m a batch sparger and use about 60-65% of my water in the mash and the rest in the sparge. That piece of my process has been pretty solid once I understood that I should acidify my sparge water before adding it back to my MT.
The chiller didn’t really smell or feel like anything was on it. The thing about chillers is that a brewer uses them for MANY years so I honestly don’t remember if I did anything with my original copper chiller. This new one has now been in boiling wort and also in boiling water (as a test) and my guess is that if there was something offensive on it, it’s gone now.
Unless a faulty instrument gives the wrong reading. I’d check the thermometer - easy and takes seconds.
My meter has been spot-on solid since I got it (an Omega 7111, just calibrated before the brewday) and my thermometer is a Thermapen which has also been a thing of beauty since I got it. I got them both specifically because I’m tired of guessing about whether my readings are correct.
I’m a big fan of thermapens - love the speed and accuracy. Might still be worth a check in boiling water in case it’s developed a fault. If it undetestimates the BP then your sparge water would be too hot.
I hear this. 2 things: I use a dial thermo to determine the temp of my sparge water and I intentionally only heat the sparge water to about 140° since there is no real reason to heat it further. Also, I heat my strike (mash) water to about 160 on a dial thermo and then transfer it to the MT and then check it with the Thermapen to fine-tune the mash temp. So in that case, both the dial AND the Thermapen would have to be out of whack in the same direction. On the sparge, highly unlikely that it was too hot based on the fact that I add it in the 140-150 range. Plus… I have brewed other batches lately and those have been fine. I’m pretty sure this is a NEW thing that was just introduced. Thanks again to all for the responses.
Not temp then. Any chance you got hallertau mixed up with a high AA hop?
Well. My bags were marked 3.2% Hallertau and smelled like Hallertau. How about this…
I just spoke with another brewer who had replaced some of the parts in his brewery with stainless (some valves and a chiller). He ended up having the exact same issue I did… nasty, metallic, harsh flavor in his wort. Turns out that stainless (I’m not sure if this is ALL stainless… maybe some is made differently, maybe some is cleaned up before it’s sold, etc.) needs to be cleaned, boiled, etc. before using it. I had never heard this but I am sharing it for whatever it’s worth so no one else experiences this and loses a batch. I have very little stainless in my brewery. I have an old-school SS racking cane that I use and my kettle is SS as well and I don’t remember having issues with those two things. If anyone else knows any additional information on this, please post. Cheers.
Interesting…thanks for the info, Ken!
I had literally that happen to me on a batch of my Kolsch last year. Bags were labeled Hallertauer, but I suspect were actually Hallertau Magnum since I didn’t notice that they were over 8% AA until after I was cleaning up. Needless to say, my Kolsch was more of a Kolsch/Pils hybrid at that point.
The only info I have is that I’ve never heard that before and I’ve been around a while. There is no reason for stainless to be any different than most other metals. Sure, it’s gonna be dirty, but that’s about it. What is the issue that cleaning/boiling/etc.solves?
I am the guy that Ken spoke to.
I ruined a batch of helles, by not properly cleaning my new stainless components.
I had done a quick cleaning…But, I definitely didn’t do as good a job, as I should have.
I theorize that a coating of machining oil/grease & who knows what other heavy metals & filth was on some of my new components & that boiling coupled with the pH of the wort cleaned the components, far better than the lackadaisical cleaning I had done.
Consequently, the resulting beer turned out slightly darker in color & contained an astringent, metallic quality that was absolutely awful.
In talking to Ken, I’m fairly confident that he discovered the same type of problem that I had on that batch.
I don’t know for 100% certain, but it seems to be a safe bet.
I traced my problem to the new stainless components, by a process of elimination.
Sodium Metabisulfite was not used in my ruined batch, so I know that was not a contributing factor.
My water filtration system was used prior & following…Also showing no contribution.
I used hops from the same 1 lb bag, on previous & subsequent batches, so I know they were not my cause.
I used grain from the same bags prior & following…Not a factor.
In truth, I later brewed the exact same recipe & found nothing like the ruined batch.
The same kettles, chiller, pump, fittings, heating element, controller, spoon, mash paddle, mash tun, etc. were all used on subsequent batches, with no ill results.
If you look into some of the processes that are used in the manufacturing of stainless components, you’ll see a LOT of things used that you don’t want in your beer. Greases that contain heavy metals & toxins are fairly common. Cutting oils are used, frequently.
It’s not unrealistic to think that a dunk in an Oxyclean or PBW solution might not do the job.
If you can think of a better explanation, you’re welcome to continue trying.
But, I believe I found the culprit in my system & have since decided to do a deep cleaning on all new parts.
Good explanation and pretty much what I expected. Thanks. I guess I’ve never added anything new to my system without a thorough cleaning first, so I didn’t think of it here.
The next time I see a pro friend, I will ask him about the new kegs at the new brewery. I visited before they opened and he was doing a cleaning cycle wit hot caustic then hot acid IIRC.
Denny, ask Oakshire what they do with new kegs.
Will do, Jeff.
I just got a new stainless steel chiller. You can bet I will clean it thoroughly! Maybe I’ll give it a lick first, for science.
This is exactly why I wanted to share this. As I said, this may not happen with ALL stainless parts that are introduced but I’m quite sure this is what happened to me. Kit’s description of the flavor is very similar to mine. I plan to brew again one day next week and as a precaution I will be cleaning and boiling this stainless chiller again. Thanks again to Kit for shedding some light on this… it’s a relief to know.
Interesting and good to know for future references. This is why this forum is so helpful. One person’s issue becomes everyones problem to solve. I love it and will learn from it. Thanks and sorry for your helles loss.