Question about hop utilization, as I’ve seen varied data: what time during the boil utilizes the most flavor, forgetting bitterness and aroma. I’ve seen at the 10 minute addition, and I’ve seen 20. Anyone have any insight/data/experience with this?
I prefer all my flavor and aroma hops in the whirlpool at 170 degrees.
Happy New Year! To achieve the wished result follow your recipe. Always keep notes when you brew so you can adjust your product to your taste, after a batch or two. There are many hop varieties as you know, some for bitterness or aroma mainly and some for both. The recipe will guide you when to use them in order to release acids for bitterness and oils for flavour. It’s very common to dry hop your batch during fermentation.
Boil additions at or near 15 minutes, FWH and post boil additions yield the most flavor in my experience. Each of these alternatives, along with many other variables will make a difference in both the quantity and quality of the flavor.
If I really wanted to check out the flavor of a given hop variety, I’d likely do a FWH addition and a zero addition steep for about 20 minutes in a 100% American 2-row wort. I’m sure you’ll get as many opinions as you do responses 
Avoiding the typical pedantic debate on what “flavor” is or what “most” is, or even what “is” is… I will second the motion for hop flavor coming from a whirlpool stand at 170F for 15-20 minutes in hop forward America beers. And it produces enough aroma that dry hoping can be ignored, but then we’d have to debate what “enough” means .
My IPAs and APAs get a 60 min bittering charge and the rest go in at 170F for 15 min. I dry hop usually but not always.
In my opinion it’s possible to over do dry hopping.
In my opinion, you can get hop aroma without dry hops.
I agree - for American styles there’s no sub IMO for the flavor you get from a whirlpool/steep addition ( I like 170ish, too). But using noble hops for lagers and Belgian ales, I like the character you get from the boil additions. Noble hops are a different animal altogether IMO. Depending on the style, I pick up subtle noble character from just a 60 min addition. Matter of fact I medaled on a marzen over the summer where I only used a 60 min addition of Mittelfrueh and one of the judges commented that he picked up on subtle noble flavor/aroma but loved it. So I guess it depends on what I brew.
My experience 100%. You can take all cool tricks and make them work everywhere. Fully agree on noble or English hops. Best at 10-15 min. In my opinion.
I know it’s just a matter of time till we get the “flavor is aroma” lesson. And I totally understand that, if we’re talking ear-nose-throat doctor stuff. But my thought on that is good ahead and try an IPA that has 60 IBU at 60 min, and the rest of the hops dry hopped. It ain’t going to have that great of flavor even though it might be maxed out on aroma. Some of this “science proves it” stuff just doesn’t take into account the reality of art.
Yeah, there’s still a lot of stuff the experts only guess at when it comes to hop flavor and aromas. A lot of research yet to be done there. I guess we just go with what we like best. I like the science to learn new things but I still trust my senses first.
Science or Art?
Forest said “maybe both is happening at the same time”
I would think that the flavor/aroma results you get form a particular hop/time/beer would be the science, and knowing how to wield that knowledge to craft the correct final experience for the drinker is the art.
Sounds good to me. Gotta have the science down to add your artistic touch, though. Or whatever. Hell, making beer is fun. Should be anyway.
I like hop bursting or a modified version of it for maximum flavor. For IPA I do a 60 minute addition, usually Magnum. The rest of the hops are added in the last 15 minutes, whirlpool and dry hopped. I dry hop for 2-3 days in my primary FV after fermentation is complete. I then rack to secondary to leave some of the hop trub behind or else it clogs my keg and makes the beer look, dare I say, juicy.
For APA I skip the the bittering addition and I rarely dry hop.
There are plenty of articles in Zymurgy on hops and hop techniques so check them out.
I’m sure that I’m just off the mark, but I am always underwhelmed by the hop intensity that I get from late hopping. I just did a pale ale and it had 2oz of zythos and 2oz of azacca in the last 10 minutes, but tasting the beer transferring to the keg didn’t wow me with hop character compared to much smaller additions that I have done on other beers (with similar grain bills). It seems like quite a lot of the late hopping gets blown off during the ferment, or maybe it is just the yeast I’m using (1968).
But, like I said, I’m propably just off the mark here as many many people do lots of late hopping and get strong hop intensity from it.
^Use more hops. IMO a pale ale can easily use more. I also didn’t get much flavor from Azacca and I used 4oz, 2oz at 10 or 15 and 2 at KO. I likely won’t use Azacca again. Nothing beats cascade in a pale ale.
FWIW I whirlpool 5 oz Azacca in my APA (no late boil additions) for 30 mins and get plenty of hop flavor.
Yeah, I think mine might as well have been whirlpool since they went in at 2 minutes and then were whirlpooling for probably 10 before it chilled. So I looked back and the hop schedule was
1oz Zythos @ 20
2oz Zythos @ 2
2oz Azacca @ 2
then there will be some dryhop too. What yeast were you using? I use 1968 basically all the time, but I don’t often make particularly hoppy beer so it may not be a good yeast choice.
I use a lot of 1056 (sometimers 1450) for American styles. Being a hophead I like how it stays in the background.
Another vote for flameout / whirlpool. Flavor and aroma are really one and the same thing. In effect your nasal passage sniffs the beer as it slides down your throat.
Jim warned you! [emoji3]
My next IPA is getting split w 1056 and 007. Always have used 007. I also agree on the flameout/whirlpool. I usually don’t do a stand at 170. I usually dose at flameout and chill recirculating to the kettle.