Where should I be leaning on this? Jever boiled seem ok? I’ve read it’s best to minimize the sulfate, but with the late and dry hops I assume the sulfate would be ok if not over done.
Not going crazy on the late hops. 0.50oz at 20, 1.5oz whirlpool and 1oz dry.
Note: I swear this was discussed recently, but I can’t find the thread.
Jever boiled is what I use for that.
I’ve liked Jever boiled as well.
Thanks
Sulfate does not make beer bitter nor make hops (noble or otherwise) harsh. It makes the beer finish drier. In my opinion, bitterness is mostly a product of bittering/gravity ratio.
Thanks Martin. I was going off old threads where both AJ and you had contributed. I want this to be dry and crisp, so I’ll continue with Jever as planned.
Denny or Jon,
When you say you use Jever boiled, that’s for mash water not finished beer profile. Correct?
Well, both. Unlike (for example) the pale ale profile where I often back off the sulfate a bit, I generally target the finished Jever profile. Depends on what I’m after though.
How do you get to 46 ppm CA and 15 ppm NA?
Edit: Wait, are you adding pickling lime?
I guess I should say that I don’t target the exact Na values. I monitor Na to only be sure it doesn’t get above 50ppm generally but don’t care otherwise. As for the rest, I try to hit the 75 sulfate and 30 chloride values, along with the 46ish Ca. What I do is to add sufficient CaCl2 to hit 30ppm, then add gypsum until I hit the 46ppm Ca. Whatever sulfate value that is deficient to hit the 75ppm sulfate (if any) is then made up with Epsom salt. Of course, epsom = sulfate with no Ca. Balances out that way.
Mine is similar, but I’m using Gypsum, CaCl, and salt. No Epsom.
Why not? I’ve had a much easier time dialing things in since I got epsom. It’s really convenient to have a way to adjust sulfate without messing up your calcium levels.
Not avoiding Epsom salt at all. Use it all the time. I just didn’t need it to hit my target numbers here. I’ve been making a habit of including 15ppm sodium in every batch. Doing this here allowed for enough room to not go crazy on the calcium.
Thanks Jon, That method worked perfectly and only needed CaCl2 and gypsum when starting with RO, which I do.
Next question…How do you incorporate the SMB when doing a LODO batch?
Well, using the trifecta mixture at the recommended .37g/gal , I count on around 45ppm sulfate. For lagers I use CaCl2 only, to hit just over 40ppm Ca, then lactic to correct pH . And for ales, I figure in the assumed 45ppm SO4 to whatever profile I’m using. In other words, if I’m brewing an APA and want 160ppm SO4, I’ll add 115ppm SO4 into software because I know I’m getting the other 45ppm from SMB.
Edited for simple math error. 
My current hoppy lager used the same water profile as my APA which contains over 200 ppm SO4. In this beer, I feel it has increased the perception of crispness and makes it more identifiable as a lager.
Wow. So I guess I shouldn’t worry about 70ppm.
I wouldn’t. Actually my exception is German pils where I like a drier finish. I like 70 to 100 SO4 there.
I think pils water is really forgiving and there is a wide range of acceptable choices provided there little to no alkalinity. I build mine from distilled, keep it balanced, with all under 50ppm. I have also done a few 100% distilled and that is good too. I never did side by sides but dang if I could really tell the difference… That said, the key to dry and crisp is a lower pH 5.2. 4-5% acid malt gets you there but I am looking forward to going LODO someday and plan to try homemade sauergut. I will probably just add a bit of CaCL to distilled again once I start messing with SMB. KISS.
But, for lagers, 40 ppm Ca from CaCl2 is going to yield ~80 ppm Cl. Way more than the 30 ppm in Jever boiled. Combined with 45 SO4 gives a “very full” profile while Jever boiled is a “very dry” profile. ??