Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing

[system]

Having tried the bevy of active scavengers out on the market today I will add some data points for folks.

SMB = worked great and achieved what I wanted

KMB= same

AA = worked but created a duller wort( guessing Fenton reactions)

BTB= zero zilch nada as far as low oxygen mitigation was concerned.

Antioxidant-c( KMB+AA it’s marked as a post fermentation scavenger but it’s the same thing)= same duller wort, not as good as
SMB/KMB alone, but lowered the meta dose which is always good

SMB/KMB-BTB= good combo better than meta alone( theory Fenton reactions).

AA-BTB= not as good as meta BTB but a lot better than AA on its own.

SMB/KMB-AA-BTB= now we are on to something. Lower the meta dose(good) adding he power of AA scavenging(good) adding BTB for stopping Fenton reactions. Great combo, great malt/beer flavor.

Antitoxin-SB( KMB+AA+gallovin)= The best around. I don’t know why it works better maybe the ratio, maybe they have better gallotannins.

My take away is this. If you want to use Meta alone great scavenger. Don’t use AA with out BTB, otherwise I think you are making super oxidizer. Use either (meta, AA) with BTB for best results, and use all 3 if you are feeling frisky.

[natebrews]

Just to fill out the matrix, did you try SMB+AA without BTB? Or maybe that is the Antiox-C you listed.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

Having tried the bevy of active scavengers out on the market today I will add some data points for folks.

SMB = worked great and achieved what I wanted

KMB= same

AA = worked but created a fuller wort( guessing Fenton reactions)

BTB= zero zilch nada as far as low oxygen mitigation was concerned.

Antioxidant-c( KMB+AA it’s marked as a post fermentation scavenger but it’s the same thing)= same duller wort, not as good as
SMB/KMB alone, but lowered the meta dose which is always good

SMB/KMB-BTB= good combo better than meta alone( theory Fenton reactions).

AA-BTB= not as good as meta BTB but a lot better than AA on its own.

SMB/KMB-AA-BTB= now we are on to something. Lower the meta dose(good) adding he power of AA scavenging(good) adding BTB for stopping Fenton reactions. Great combo, great malt/beer flavor.

Antitoxin-SB( KMB+AA+gallovin)= The best around. I don’t know why it works better maybe the ratio, maybe they have better gallotannins.

My take away is this. If you want to use Meta alone great scavenger. Don’t use AA with out BTB, otherwise I think you are making super oxidizer. Use either (meta, AA) with BTB for best results, and use all 3 if you are feeling frisky.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great info and explanations.

[system]

@natebrews

Just to fill out the matrix, did you try SMB+AA without BTB? Or maybe that is the Antiox-C you listed.

Yea antiox-c.

[beersk]

@stpug

@beersk

I hate Sublime, such an overrated band.

But have you ever listened to them

Hahaha!!! Great movie.

[lupulus]

Having tried the bevy of active scavengers out on the market today I will add some data points for folks.

SMB = worked great and achieved what I wanted

KMB= same

AA = worked but created a duller wort( guessing Fenton reactions)

BTB= zero zilch nada as far as low oxygen mitigation was concerned.

Antioxidant-c( KMB+AA it’s marked as a post fermentation scavenger but it’s the same thing)= same duller wort, not as good as
SMB/KMB alone, but lowered the meta dose which is always good

SMB/KMB-BTB= good combo better than meta alone( theory Fenton reactions).

AA-BTB= not as good as meta BTB but a lot better than AA on its own.

SMB/KMB-AA-BTB= now we are on to something. Lower the meta dose(good) adding he power of AA scavenging(good) adding BTB for stopping Fenton reactions. Great combo, great malt/beer flavor.

Antitoxin-SB( KMB+AA+gallovin)= The best around. I don’t know why it works better maybe the ratio, maybe they have better gallotannins.

My take away is this. If you want to use Meta alone great scavenger. Don’t use AA with out BTB, otherwise I think you are making super oxidizer. Use either (meta, AA) with BTB for best results, and use all 3 if you are feeling frisky.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Bryan!
Small correction. SBT (not SB) is the one with tannins. Not sure how you know it is Gallovin they are using. Inside info? - Ajinomoto has the Tannal line for wine, so that may be closer to Gallovin…
Cheers,

[system]

Yea my fault I missed the T.  I may or may not have some info

[beersk]

FWIW I have never had issues with sulfur in the entirety of my low oxygen brewing. I have always used only Bavarian lager strains, and 1056. I also always make sure to have fresh healthy yeast as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, Globviously we’re all doing SOMETHING wrong if we’ve had too much sulfur in our beers.

I’ve taken to using .25g/gal of the antioxin mix for mash .1g/gal for sparge. No sulfur issues with that.

[stpug]

@beersk

FWIW I have never had issues with sulfur in the entirety of my low oxygen brewing. I have always used only Bavarian lager strains, and 1056. I also always make sure to have fresh healthy yeast as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, Globviously we’re all doing SOMETHING wrong if we’ve had too much sulfur in our beers.

I’ve taken to using .25g/gal of the antioxin mix for mash .1g/gal for sparge. No sulfur issues with that.

The few lagers I’ve brewed with SMB have not had any unusual level of sulfur, and the two recent (and only) batches I’ve done with 1056 also are completely lacking sulfur.  Yeast strains sure seem to either have or not have a specialized pathway to “deal with” sulfites to varying degrees.  A few ale strains I used had very little to no ability to “deal with” sulfites.

[beersk]

@stpug

@beersk

FWIW I have never had issues with sulfur in the entirety of my low oxygen brewing. I have always used only Bavarian lager strains, and 1056. I also always make sure to have fresh healthy yeast as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, Globviously we’re all doing SOMETHING wrong if we’ve had too much sulfur in our beers.

I’ve taken to using .25g/gal of the antioxin mix for mash .1g/gal for sparge. No sulfur issues with that.

The few lagers I’ve brewed with SMB have not had any unusual level of sulfur, and the two recent (and only) batches I’ve done with 1056 also are completely lacking sulfur.  Yeast strains sure seem to either have or not have a specialized pathway to “deal with” sulfites to varying degrees.  A few ale strains I used had very little to no ability to “deal with” sulfites.

Well, aren’t you special. Maybe I’m just TOO F*CKING GOOD at low oxygen brewing, so I’m getting sulfur. Ha!

Doubt it. No problems since I switch to the antioxin mix.

[ynotbrusum]

One aspect I noticed is that an amber international lager I just brewed LO style was so much lighter in color than expected that it barely qualifies for entry into this category for competitions.  I eyeballed a beer to be 7 SRM that I expected to fall around 10 SRM.  I will be entering  it in the category nonetheless, since the flavor is wonderful (to me, of course).  Just thought I would report back…

[system]

@ynotbrusum

One aspect I noticed is that an amber international lager I just brewed LO style was so much lighter in color than expected that it barely qualifies for entry into this category for competitions.  I eyeballed a beer to be 7 SRM that I expected to fall around 10 SRM.  I will be entering  it in the category nonetheless, since the flavor is wonderful (to me, of course).  Just thought I would report back…

Yup. We calculate a 20% reduction in Beer SRM in the spreadsheet to account for this.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@ynotbrusum

One aspect I noticed is that an amber international lager I just brewed LO style was so much lighter in color than expected that it barely qualifies for entry into this category for competitions.  I eyeballed a beer to be 7 SRM that I expected to fall around 10 SRM.  I will be entering  it in the category nonetheless, since the flavor is wonderful (to me, of course).  Just thought I would report back…

For sure. Every beer so far has been noticeably lighter for me. I plan to post a pic of the 2 Dunkels soon to illustrate that.

[wobdee]

As far as this Antiox mix I think 45/45/10 may be a good place to start but everyone may have to tweak it a bit to fit their own system. My Braumeister isn’t so tight as far as lodo goes so I mix mine a little heavy on the smb side, 60/30/10, so far this mix seems to be working great for me.

[beersk]

@ynotbrusum

One aspect I noticed is that an amber international lager I just brewed LO style was so much lighter in color than expected that it barely qualifies for entry into this category for competitions.  I eyeballed a beer to be 7 SRM that I expected to fall around 10 SRM.  I will be entering  it in the category nonetheless, since the flavor is wonderful (to me, of course).  Just thought I would report back…

Yup. We calculate a 20% reduction in Beer SRM in the spreadsheet to account for this.

Bryan mentioned something about how he started assuming 25% reduction in color since using the antioxin. Not sure you’d really be able to tell 5% though.

[lupulus]

@wobdee

As far as this Antiox mix I think 45/45/10 may be a good place to start but everyone may have to tweak it a bit to fit their own system. My Braumeister isn’t so tight as far as lodo goes so I mix mine a little heavy on the smb side, 60/30/10, so far this mix seems to be working great for me.

Quick questions to the group on Antioxin…
Where is the 45/45/10 coming from? (Probably it is somewhere in the thread but I can’t find it). Is it tannins/ AA / KMB (order listed in the brochure)? 
I am traveling to Europe in a week with side trip to Braukunst, so I can buy 1kg to compare with the Brewtan mix (home-made)… Any other place that sells it besides the Italian Mr Malty? Did you get it shipped to the US? (easier than carrying a kilo of powder for a week…)

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@lupulus

@wobdee

As far as this Antiox mix I think 45/45/10 may be a good place to start but everyone may have to tweak it a bit to fit their own system. My Braumeister isn’t so tight as far as lodo goes so I mix mine a little heavy on the smb side, 60/30/10, so far this mix seems to be working great for me.

Quick questions to the group on Antioxin…
Where is the 45/45/10 coming from? (Probably it is somewhere in the thread but I can’t find it). Is it tannins/ AA / KMB (order listed in the brochure)?

No, Bryan said 45 SMB/45 AA/10 BTB.

[system]

@lupulus

@wobdee

As far as this Antiox mix I think 45/45/10 may be a good place to start but everyone may have to tweak it a bit to fit their own system. My Braumeister isn’t so tight as far as lodo goes so I mix mine a little heavy on the smb side, 60/30/10, so far this mix seems to be working great for me.

Quick questions to the group on Antioxin…
Where is the 45/45/10 coming from? (Probably it is somewhere in the thread but I can’t find it). Is it tannins/ AA / KMB (order listed in the brochure)?

No, Bryan said 45 SMB/45 AA/10 BTB.

Just a quick disclaimer: I believe the percentages came from somewhere else. Bryan was careful not to divulge the percentages in the blog post because of it being a proprietary blend.

With that said, I don’t think that looks like a bad place to start, percentage wise. [emoji6]

[system]

@beersk

@ynotbrusum

One aspect I noticed is that an amber international lager I just brewed LO style was so much lighter in color than expected that it barely qualifies for entry into this category for competitions.  I eyeballed a beer to be 7 SRM that I expected to fall around 10 SRM.  I will be entering  it in the category nonetheless, since the flavor is wonderful (to me, of course).  Just thought I would report back…

Yup. We calculate a 20% reduction in Beer SRM in the spreadsheet to account for this.

Bryan mentioned something about how he started assuming 25% reduction in color since using the antioxin. Not sure you’d really be able to tell 5% though.

Sure, its a shade lighter

[system]

@lupulus

@wobdee

As far as this Antiox mix I think 45/45/10 may be a good place to start but everyone may have to tweak it a bit to fit their own system. My Braumeister isn’t so tight as far as lodo goes so I mix mine a little heavy on the smb side, 60/30/10, so far this mix seems to be working great for me.

Quick questions to the group on Antioxin…
Where is the 45/45/10 coming from? (Probably it is somewhere in the thread but I can’t find it). Is it tannins/ AA / KMB (order listed in the brochure)? 
I am traveling to Europe in a week with side trip to Braukunst, so I can buy 1kg to compare with the Brewtan mix (home-made)… Any other place that sells it besides the Italian Mr Malty? Did you get it shipped to the US? (easier than carrying a kilo of powder for a week…)

Hey R-

Mr.Malty is the only source that I know that sells it to the HB’er and they don’t ship to the US. I got it directly from AEB. 45/45/10 is the ratio I said to start with and play around with.

Cheers.