Mr. Malty calls for a 4 quart starter with 7 vials of White Labs liquid yeast. The batch size is 12 gal. of lager using a stir plate for an OG of 1.056.
Does this sound like a lot of yeast?
That is a huge starter?
That is about $45 wort of yeast.
If you wanted to use only 3 vials of liquid yeast Mr. Malty calls for 3 gallons of starter. WOW! That is 25% of the entire batch.
You could do a two step - by my estimate pitch two vials into a 3 liter starter. This will get you about 7 vials worth. Cold crash, decant, and add the yeast to a 4 liter starter. Cold crash and decant again. You don’t want all that spent starter in your beer.
If you buy an 8 liter flask you must sleep with it next to you.
mtnrockhopper…Not only is the starter huge but a 8 liter flask is huge as well. The estimated OG is 1.056 with a stir plate. I just got the stir plate but have not used it yet.
Do you have to keep the temperature at 50 for starters also or do you ferment and decant at room temperature?
Agree with using smaller steps. For example, pitch 1 vial into a 1 liter 1.040 starter batch, let it do its thing (stirplate helps a lot), chill x several days, decant and pour into another 2 liter 1.040 starter batch, etc. You’re interested in the number of quality doublings of your viable yeast (to get the yeast cell counts up) as well as yeast cell vitality (how healthy they are, i.e., are they “rev’d up and ready to go?”). A starter really helps get the fermentation going quickly. There are calculators out there to help figure out what volume you need.
Frankly, I find the Mr. Malty website confusing and unhelpful.
Furthermore, most of us homebrewers don’t have hemocytometers to do yeast cell counts.
At the end of the day, I do one vial per 1 liter starter for ales (5 gallon batch) and step starters 1 vial per 1 liter starter, then step up to 2 liter starter for lagers (5 gallon batch). It seems to work.
I agree about vitality, which is often overlooked in peoples’ yeast calculations. The focus of the starter should be vitality, with raw numbers of yeast being secondary. If you just wanted maximum yield, everyone would just make 20L “starters.”
I think the MrMalty tool is more helpful than nothing, but since most people don’t have the tools to measure their actual results, it seems kind of like adjusting mash pH using a spreadsheet without a pH meter. Even a really good spreadsheet like Bru’n water won’t tell you what your mash pH actually is. It may get you “close enough” almost all of the time, but it’s still a guess.
I’ve read that the commercial pitching rate for ales is usually given as 1m/ml/*P. Fix, White and Zainasheff recommend 0.75m/ml/*P for ales and 1.5m/ml/*P for lagers. White and Zainasheff recommend adapting the pitch rate based on beer style and recipe. They say you can use up to a 50% lower pitching rate when using fresh lab-grown yeast. They also say when working with yeast that was sitting on a store shelf you may need to increase the pitching rate.
Mr. Malty just gives you a 0.75m factor for ales and 1.5m for lagers (and I think 1m for ‘hybrid’?). So the MrMalty calculator seems like a one-size-fits-all approach to a fairly complicated problem.
Sometimes you can use a 20 L (5 gallon) starter–it’s called re-using the yeast cake from the previous batch you brewed.
I just saved myself the aggravation of cleaning out one of my fermentors by pitching a small beer (strong scotch ale second runnings) onto a belgian wheat yeast cake. I wasn’t going to let all that leftover malty goodness go to waste by dumping the grains, so I partigyled. Not my first choice of yeast (WY3942), but it was what I had just brewed. Going to call it a Scottish Wit. Well…I dunno; there’s no wheat in the grain bill, so it might have to be called a Scottish Witless. Have I created a new beer style?
Well… I had a feeling it wasn’t original. Thanks for reminding me–I had read that before and forgot.
Belgian wheat yeast that may have originally come from Scotland–and I dumped my second runnings of my Strong Scotch Ale into it. Seems poetic in a way.
I do wonder if it’ll taste clean like a Scottish 70/- or more Belgian-y (phenols) if fermented at 60F.
Regardless–it used a 20L “yeast starter.” Now, back on topic (Mr. Malty).
I think it’s odd that MrMalty doesn’t have more functionality for a stepped starter, given that in White and Zainasheffs book they highlight the effects of inoculation rate on yeast growth. Sean Terrill has a process that’s a workaround, but how hard would it be to set it up for stepped starters and different target pitching rates?
I’ve made an excel sheet based on their research in “Yeast” for my calculations. That’s usually what I’ll use when I’m trying to figure out my stepped starter sizes, but I still use mrmalty occasionally.