My first yeast starter - questions!

[tygo]

Also, if you fill it up that much, even with foam control you’re likely to have it blow out of the container.

I used to use a plastic gallon jug for two liter starters.  Best to use one that contained water rather than milk for sanitation purposes.

[a10t2]

@jivetyrant

3 slap packs of Wyeast 1056 American Ale. (propagator packs, not activator packs)

If you have three Propagators, there’s no way you’re going to get to your target cell count in a single step. Three Propagators will be ~75 billion cells, and for a 1.104 ale the target would normally be ~350 billion. According to the “intermittent shaking” option on the MrMalty calculator, you’d need an 6.4 L single-stage starter. Or you could do a 1 L first stage and 2 L second stage.

[jivetyrant]

Am I using MrMalty wrong?  I put in my OG or 1.104, type as ale, volume as 5.00 gallons, production date as 2/2/2011 for an 87% viability rate. Liquid yeast, intermittent shaking, default growth factor.  It gives me 348 billion yeast cells needed, 4 slap packs needed without a starter, 2 slap packs needed with a starter, starter volume of 1.91 liters.

Also, I bought a quality $11 gallon glass jug of some really top shelf wine, which was promptly donated to the kitchen sink.  I would imagine that would be sufficient for most of my starter needs!

[sathingtonwilloby (Mark G)]

The Propagator packs contain only 25 billion cells, while the Activator packs have 100 billion cells. The Mr. Malty calculator works under the assumption that you’re starting with Activator packs. And good purchase on the gallon jug. Those are perfect.

[jivetyrant]

Prepped a 1L starter with 3.5oz of DME and pitched all 3 Propagator packs.  It’s definitely a lot more active than my last one was!  When I shake it it foams right out the top of it’s 2000ml flask!  I’ll pitch to a 2L secondary starter when this one slows down, from what has been said that should get me pretty close to the cell count I’m looking for.  If not I have several packets of dry S04 and S05 I can fall back on, I can’t imagine I’d have problems mixing the yeast strains.

When its done I plan to decant off nearly all the liquid and then shake it a bit to get the yeast cake back into suspension then pitch that straight to the carboy.  Is that correct?

[hokerer]

@jivetyrant

When its done I plan to decant off nearly all the liquid and then shake it a bit to get the yeast cake back into suspension then pitch that straight to the carboy.  Is that correct?

That is correct

[jivetyrant]

I ended up running out of time and wasn’t able to do the second yeast starter I had planned on.  I am now left with a standard 1L starter with 3 propagator packs in it.  I am planning on pitching that and supplementing with some rehydrated dry yeast.  I have several varieties available to me. (I keep a stock of dry yeast in case of mistakes or emergencies such as this)

I have US-05, US-04, S-33, T-58, Nottingham and Windsor.  Any reccomendations. (It’s an Imperial Stout, 1.104-1.110 OG)

Edit: I am leaning strongly towards the US-05 as it seems the most similar to the Wyeast 1056 American Ale I’m using currently.

[a10t2]

Yes, US-05 and 1056 are essentially the same yeast.

[punatic]

@tschmidlin

@punatic

I don’t know…how about:
As porosity goes to 0, bulk density approaches particle density.

;D  That works.  I don’t remember that phrase from any of my classes, but that could be because they were mechanical engineering or biochemistry classes, not civil engineering or materials science or soil or any of a host of things where that would come into play.  It could also be because I wasn’t always paying that much attention

Geotechnical engineering, Environmental engineering, Hydrogeology…

[ronrock]

jivetyrant, How did the fermentation go?

[jivetyrant]

Well!  I tossed the first starter that I made, it was showing very little activity.  As suspected by a few folks the starter’s OG was far too high.  I ended up following the instructions on MrMalty for my second starter.  I did a 1L starter using 3.5oz DME and a bit of yeast nutrient. (1g DME per 10ml final volume)  This starter showed great activity!  I did not have time to increase to a larger starter so I instead supplemented the starter with an 11.5g pack of rehydrated S-05.  Fermentation proceeded quite quickly and topped out at a somewhat disappointing 1.042, roughly a 63% attenuation. (I started a separate thread regarding the stuck fermentation.)  I added some more yeast nutrient, pitched some more rehydrated S-05 and a touch of sugar to get it working, shook the carboy very thoroughly in the morning and at night, making sure there was no yeast sediment on the bottom before stopping.  I raised the temp a bit, bumping it closer to 75-80.  2 days later I went to check my gravity and… promptly dropped my hydrometer and smashed it to bits. -.-

My new hydrometer arrived in the mail yesterday.  I swung for a (hopefully) more swish model, choosing a thermohydrometer from northernbrewer.  Will probably check the gravity tonight or tomorrow!

[ajk]

@maxieboy

@punatic

Storing it in the fridge will cause a longer lag time when you pitch it into the wort.

Could you expand on this? Myself and lots of excellent homebrewers have followed numerous commercial breweries lead of pitching cold.

I don’t know about lag time, but I alway try to keep starters around the same temperature as the wort because of the following from Jamil’s site:

According to Dr. Clayton Cone, one of the foremost experts on yeast, the yeast should be within 15F of the wort they’re being pitched into. Neva Parker, the Laboratory Manger at White Labs, suggests a maximum swing of 10F and ideally 5F. I agree with Neva 100%. Besides shocking and stressing the yeast, pitching warm yeast into a cool wort can cause many of the yeast to produce petite mutants, which will never grow or ferment properly and they can produce excessive H2S.

[denny]

@ajk

@maxieboy

@punatic

Storing it in the fridge will cause a longer lag time when you pitch it into the wort.

Could you expand on this? Myself and lots of excellent homebrewers have followed numerous commercial breweries lead of pitching cold.

I don’t know about lag time, but I alway try to keep starters around the same temperature as the wort because of the following from Jamil’s site:

According to Dr. Clayton Cone, one of the foremost experts on yeast, the yeast should be within 15F of the wort they’re being pitched into. Neva Parker, the Laboratory Manger at White Labs, suggests a maximum swing of 10F and ideally 5F. I agree with Neva 100%. Besides shocking and stressing the yeast, pitching warm yeast into a cool wort can cause many of the yeast to produce petite mutants, which will never grow or ferment properly and they can produce excessive H2S.

Notice that says pitching warm yeast into cool wort.  I’ve had excellent results pitching cold yeast into warmer wort.  It comes out of the fridge and right into the beer.

[sathingtonwilloby (Mark G)]

This came up a while back on the forum, and since then, I’ve been keeping my starters in the fridge until I’m ready to pitch. Then decant, and pitch cold. It’s been probably 10-15 batches, and I haven’t noticed any difference in yeast performance.