Thank you Denny. Hello guys, this is Jonathan, the “Brewing Ambassador” (AKA Brand Manager) from Craft Meister chemicals. I would like to be active on this forum as a product expert and someone that can offer assistance and answer questions about cleaning and sanitizing. I’d be more than happy to field and answer any questions regarding the Craft Meister and BTF Iodophor products that National Chemicals, Inc. manufactures.
Cheers!
agreed-my glass looks like i windexed it!
Hi Jonathon and welcome,
I’d like to know what the recommended dosages are for cleaning: kettles, kegs, carboys? Also how this would work in a CIP environment and what dose you would recommend for that…
Hey Jonathan-
would this be a no rinse cleaner at listed dosage rates- 1 tablet per 3 gallons?
thanks
It is a percarbonate based cleaner based on what their MSDS says, which would make it similar to PBW.
I guess the concept of a no-rinse cleaner doesn’t make much sense to me. If you have all the gunk that you cleaned off your dirty fermenter or keg dissolved in solution, wouldn’t you want to rinse the dirty cleaner off?
Good point
a lot of junk bubbles out during the process (i fill it all the way ). whats left is swirled and dumped. i then just throw a little more cleaner and water in , swirl and dump. then starsan.
honestly not doing it for any other reason then the product says rinsing not needed…so i don’t sweat over it either way.
Great question. A previous poster mentioned our philosophy on “no-rinse cleaners” in a previous post, and my answer will essentially be the same. A rinse step is very important, even at low dosages, because not only does it remove trace detergent chemicals (although percarbonate breaks down into natural, harmless salts, we also use various alkaline agents that you wouldn’t want to track into your beverage), but rinsing also removes any of the solids and gunk that your cleaner has loosened. When applying a no-rinse sanitizer, residual organic material and detergents have the potential to impact the effectiveness of a sanitizer if not properly removed by rinsing.
"Why is Rinsing important? Rinsing is designed to carry away residual detergent and soils after the wash step. It also provides a great opportunity to inspect your equipment for any stubborn soils that might have been missed during the wash phase. Some home brewing sanitizers lose effectiveness in the presence of a detergent, so rinsing helps insure that the sanitizing process has the best opportunity to make your equipment 99.9% free of microbes. The team at Craft Meister also uses the rinse step to routinely check for wear and tear on fittings, valves and handles. The worst (and most likely) time for any of those parts to fail is when your mash tun or kettle is full of hot material. "
So you’re really just rinsing with more sanitizer. I’m with others. You may not need to rinse the cleaner out, but without rinsing the dirt stays put.
sure understood. no gunk left when i’m done. and yes, just swishing out with much lower dose…probably dont need to and could use just water.
There are multiple Craft Meister products that you could use for the tasks in question here. We make two powdered cleaners, Craft Meister Oxygen Brewery Wash and Craft Meister Alkaline Brewery Wash. Our new product is a pre-measured tablet that is a unique blend of both of our powdered cleaners compressed into an easy to use tablet.
The usage rate for both Oxygen and Alkaline Brewery Wash powders for cleaning kegs, carboys, bottles, fittings and other general cleaning is 1 oz per gallon. We include a scoop in the containers, which translates to 2 scoops per gallon of warm-hot water. Soak for at least 20 minutes or until clean, then rinse thoroughly and sanitize if required.
For cleaning kettles, which can often have harder to clean caramelized sugars and solids, we suggest up to 2 oz per gallon (four scoops), but this is at your preference.
For CIP systems, either the Alkaline or Oxygen Brewery Wash can be used at 1 oz per gallon. The Alkaline Brewery Wash may foam with heavy agitation through pumps and spray heads, but has more staying power in solution for a longer time because it does not feature any sodium percarbonate oxygen release chemistry.
The Craft Meister Keg & Carboy Cleaning Tablets are easy to use. For kegs, fill with hot water and use one tablet per three gallons of water (so 2 tablets for a 5 gallon Corny Keg). For Carboys, fill with hot water, add 2 tablets per 3 gallons of water (4 tablets for 6 gallons). Soak for at least 60 minutes, or until you reach desired results. Rinse thoroughly, then sanitize as needed.
I hope this helps.
Cheers!
Do you sell any products that are effective at removing beerstone?
Thanks.
Beerstone is a tricky soil to deal with. Calcium Oxalate, formally known, is the result of the interaction of oxalates derived from plants (especially hops) and calcium in brewing water. It can deposit in kettles, fermenters and beer lines. We make a couple of products that can be effective for removing beer stone, which is a stubborn mineral best attacked with acids. Alkaline detergents are not effective at removing beer stone.
DBC Lime and Mineral Solvent (http://nationalchemicals.com/dbc_mineral_and_lime_solvent-152-information.html) can be used to reduce or remove mineral build up from hard water and is moderately effective at removing beer stone.
If you have beer stone deposits in draft lines, we make ALC Acid Post Wash (http://nationalchemicals.com/alc_acid_post_wash_for_draft_lines-133-information.html) which can be used occasionally after running one of our alkaline beer line cleaners through your lines. It is a strong acid, take extreme care when handling this product.
Jonathon, in what situations would I use the alkaline cleaner instead of the oxygen cleaner?
I still use unscented powdered dishwasher detergent as my main cleaner. It’s more effective than Oxyclean, and a heck of a lot cheaper than PBW. However, powdered dishwasher detergent is becoming more difficult to find in local supermarkets due to the shift toward enzymatic dishwasher detergents. I am going to have to take a look at the Keg & Carboy Tablets product.
Denny, this is probably the #1 question I field on a regular basis.
Craft Meister Oxygen (CMO) and Craft Meister Alkaline (CMA) were each designed to be a stand alone brewery cleaner product. Each cleaner has an alkaline pH in solution due to sodium metasilicate and other alkaline agents, but the big difference is that CMO is blended with a large percentage of sodium carbonate, the “oxi clean” chemical, whereas CMA does not contain percarbonate. Both CMO and CMA compare to Five Star PBW and Logic Straight A in effectiveness and price, but each Craft Meister Product has been designed to have unique advantages.
CMO is great for cleaning primary fermenters. The active oxygen does a great job at loosening krausen rings from carboys and the alkaline punch from metasilicate aids in breaking down organic solids. The oxygen will be active for roughly 60 minutes in solution until all of the percarbonate has finished doing its job. I like to call CMO Oxiclean on steroids for home brewers. It has all the visual and effective benefits of Oxi, but we also blend in agents that allow it to rinse away a whole lot easier and we also have agents in the powder that prevent chalky mineral scale build up. Percarbonate, when it breaks down, leaves carbonate ions behind that easily bond with free calcium in high mineral water leaving behind a white chalky film over time - CMO has been designed to prevent this from happening. Not suggested for use on aluminum.
CMA is a non-caustic alkaline cleaner. It works in all water conditions - hard or soft, cold or hot. It has the benefits of a professional style caustic cleaner while being much more gentle on your skin and hands and won’t cause harsh chemical burns. Unlike CMO, there is no percarbonate that foams up and gives a visual queue that the cleaner is working. This also means the CMA is a great option for those that like a “set it and forget it soak it overnight” approach because the cleaner will not lose effectiveness over time. I use CMA at home to soak clean my kegs and kettles. It is also the best powdered cleaner that I’ve personally used to strip stubborn bottle labels from beer and wine bottles. Avoid using on aluminum!
In conclusion - either Craft Meister cleaner will function well to clean anything in your home brew system. If you have both, there are jobs that I prefer one cleaner over the other for, but each cleaner is a stand alone product.
How does that compare to $1 a pound at the Dollartree for oxy-cleaner?
Mark, that’s the one I’ve used the most so far and I’m very impressed.
IMO, kinda apples and oranges. Sure, both are cleaning products but I was amazed at how much more effective the Craftmeister stuff is.
Two quick questions, Jonathon.
When you say hot water for the Craft Meister Keg & Carboy Cleaning Tablets, what’s the temp range considered to be? Only ask as I use Better Bottles and they can only take up to 120°. My hot water heater is set for around 135-140° so I back off the temp and as I don’t bother to check it I might be as low as 100°.
What’s the product availability? In other words, how soon before I might see this in my LHBS? The less I have to buy online, the happier I am.
Thanks.