Putting together a pilsner recipe focusing on NZ hops. Grain bill is: 52% Bohemian Pilsner, 26% Pale Ale, 13% Crisp Hana, 5% Wheat Malt & 4% Acidulated. Soft water profile with a lean towards hops. Hops are Pacific Jade, Nelson Sauvin & Motueka.
I have never used P.Jade or N. Sauvin. In your opinions, what is a good combination of the 3 hops?
Thank you in advance!
No thoughts on the hops, sorry. But I have to ask about the grist. Why so complicated?
I didn’t think it was too complicated. I had the hana, bohemian and pale malt left over from prior recipes. The wheat is added for head retention and flavor, whereas I usually add carafoam or carapils for head retention but leaving out of this pils recipe. Also I think the addition of wheat will add another boost of malt & a touch of sweetness. I want to really boost the hops bitterness, flavor and aroma profile but obviously want to balance that with a healthy dose malt and sweet. Hoping to get enough malt kick from the addition of pale malt.
Please share your thoughts on this.
As a way to use up malt, its fine. As a focused recipe, it doesn’t seem like it to me. There is no need to add either wheat or caramels for head retention. My pilsner recipe is usually pilsner Malt only, and I get plenty of malt kick and foam. Especially with the Hana. Read this if you haven’t already…Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Story Index - Head Retention - Getting Good Beer Foam: Techniques
[quote]I had the hana, bohemian and pale malt left over from prior recipes.
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I often do something similar when I’m getting low on a base malt. Toss it in a recipe that uses mostly something else and just get the bags empty so I can move on. Especially true if there’s several base malts which are really similar. I’m not going to notice 2# of pale malt subbed in with 16# of Pils, or something like that. I used a couple pounds of Vienna recently when I simply didn’t have enough 2 row… I figured, whatever, just get the total pounds right and let’s move on… A couple points SRM ain’t gonna move the needle That much! lol.
To the Op, I generally try out hops either in a single-hop beer, or if it’s a flavor/aroma hop that needs help, I’ll bitter with a 60min addition of something I’ve made a zillion times and could pick out blindfolded, like Magnum/CTZ. Then I can easily tell what the new hops contributed. I have never tried any of those you listed from down-under, so no comment there.
Will do! Thanks for your input!
Can’t comment on the other two, but I (usually) get a distinct, pleasant “white wine” flavor from Nelson Sauvin that I really enjoy. It works great in a Saison. If it has any fruity-ness, think something subdued like gooseberries or green grapes. But that’s always been a small part. I don’t get any “tropical” from it at all.
YMMV.
I often do something similar when I’m getting low on a base malt. Toss it in a recipe that uses mostly something else and just get the bags empty so I can move on. Especially true if there’s several base malts which are really similar. I’m not going to notice 2# of pale malt subbed in with 16# of Pils, or something like that. I used a couple pounds of Vienna recently when I simply didn’t have enough 2 row… I figured, whatever, just get the total pounds right and let’s move on… A couple points SRM ain’t gonna move the needle That much! lol.
To the Op, I generally try out hops either in a single-hop beer, or if it’s a flavor/aroma hop that needs help, I’ll bitter with a 60min addition of something I’ve made a zillion times and could pick out blindfolded, like Magnum/CTZ. Then I can easily tell what the new hops contributed. I have never tried any of those you listed from down-under, so no comment there.
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That’s a very good approach and have practiced this often but I will also roll the dice on a recipe and use descriptive theory of what each hops has to offer. In other words we know, based on others descriptions of bitterness, flavor & aroma for each hop variety, I can make a somewhat educated guess as how the end result will be. IMO, it’s very similar to baking, cooking or really any recipe building.
Cheers!
I like Nelson as a dry hop or whirlpool only. In smaller amounts its white wine and sweet fruits, in larger amounts its dank and diesel. When I’ve used it in the boil its came across as quite harsh.
I agree, most times with an educated guess, you can just wing-it and the result will be fine. But for me, and where hops are concerned, testing on the fly is sorta like cooking and using a spice I’ve never used or tasted before. Cloves in the shrimp ain’t very appealing! Lol.
My biggest problem with subbing things in is ,I’m often in a rush getting things around and forget to make the note of how much of something I put in. I’m going through that now. Brewed a beer 5-27, two batches concurrently on the same brew day. Second batch I have a note of one grist change, but I’m almost certain there was another. In my mind I seem to recall some Victory going in. Ive used that in lagers before. For the life of me I do not recall, and batch 2 is 500% better than batch 1. Batch 2 already kicked a keg, batch 1 better improve in the coming days or it’s getting pulled and possibly dumped. Not that it’s bad, but the others is so much better I can’t force myself to drink it. 
. The second keg of batch 2 is being saved for an event in a couple weeks so either I drink batch 1 or get another light-ish beer on tap real quick!
If you want your Pilsner to taste like a Pilsner, then go 100% Motueka. It’s a daughter of Saaz, and has a lot of that noble hop character. It throws some citrus and lime zest if used in larger amounts late in the boil or dry-hopped, but even then it’s not a powerful/oily IPA-style hop. I use it quite often in pilsners if I’m going less traditional and want a hint of citrus hop character.
I’ve never used P. Jade, so I can’t comment on that one. Nelson has IPA written all over it. It’s got a lot of white grapefruit character, with some white wine character mixed in. If you mix it with Motueka, be prepared for something that is more like a Pale Ale or IPA than a Pilsner. It will also overpower Motueka quite easily, so if you want to pick out both in a blend use the Nelson sparingly.