Ok guys,
Just took a final gravity reading and im at 1012 beer smith says fg should be 1018. Thats not my issue. The flavor is leaving alot to be desired. The roast isn’t very prominent, and there is a sort of mineral flavor along with a tongue tickling kinda thing going on. Ive experienced that feeling in stouts before.
To make it somewhat enjoyable can i use nibs or vanilla to add some flavor? If so do i have to prep the nibs or vanilla beans for secondary?
All tips and tricks much appreciated.
Sounds like maybe too low ph in the final product. Do you have any baking soda? Pull a half pint and gently stir a tiny amount of baking soda in. Like 1/8 teaspoon. See if that changes it for the better
Interesting sir, I’ll give it a shot. What’s the idea behind that?
Beers with roast, inherently acidic, tend to finish a little low ph. If the pH is too low it can make a beer taste and feel sharp and thin. Baking soda increases ph. If you add a touch and it doesn’t improve, add a touch more. If you add too much it can become kind of salty. But this is a cheap easy way to see if your beer is fine but just too low ph. I suspect you will notice immediately that by raising the pH your beer is less tangy and sharp, more soft and rounded.
Once you know the problem there are ways to address the issue.
+1. My only other guess is too high a ferm temp, but I assume you have that under control.
Yup.
I pitched@ 60f ramped 1 degree everyday held at 66f until activity stopped, checked fg an sampled.
Its been cold lately and i dont have a heat belt for my fermenter. I used an incandescent light in the mini freezer for heat.
Hmmm, never been a big fan of any light as a heat source.
My LHBS didnt have a heat belt in stock so i used the method they use in their fermenters.
are you trying the beer flat or carbed?
Right out of the fermenter at 66f.
Twas a sample drawn for gravity reading.
carbonation can drastically change the perception of beer. If you have access to a carbonator cap, you could draw some into a small soda bottle and force carb to see if anything changes.
And to echo the sentiment on what others have stated, my darker beers improved quite a bit when I increased the PH.
I would love to force carbonate, i just dont have any c02 equipment.
So for next time do i increase pH somehow before boil? I know certain salts are not reccomended during the sparge. I guess i could add things to the boil pot.
is this all grain or extract? If its all grain, use a water calculator like bru’n water. Not sure about extract. Everyones advice might vary, but if it were me, I would package it as I normally would and see what its like carbed.
Its all grain. I used bru n water for mash and sparge. I dont recall seeing anything aboot additions to the boil.
I could certainly give that a go.
I’ve chased after mash pH like a dog on a rabbit. For me, chasing it in the mash is folly. When I miss, I typically miss low (like .1 to .2 lower than expected). This is using RO water and Martin’s spreadsheet. That said, it has always landed me in the acceptable range for converting starch to sugar and has avoided any harsh tannin flavors. Once I collect my wort in the boil kettle, I’ll bring it above 170 to stabilize the mash profile, then halt and take a reading. It’s much easier to dial in pH in the boil kettle. After all, we’re not drinking wort, there is still a lot of process left to make beer.
With Jim’s advice in mind I conducted a small experiment. I drew three samples of Oatmeal Stout with a FG of 1.012. Each sample was 200 milliliters at 60f. I added baking soda to samples 2 and 3 to increase pH and attemp to enhance flavor.
Sample 1. Is the control beer, it has a pH of 4.5.
Sample 2. Using 1/16 tsp of baking soda it brought the sample to a pH of 5.3.
Sample 3. Using 1/8 tsp of baking soda it brought the sample to a pH of 6.0.
Sample 1 has a thin appearance and mouthfeel with a subdued roast flavor and mineral like aftertaste. All in all it’s not bad just not great.
Sample 2 has a slightly more silky appearance and mouthfeel. The roast flavor was very apparent and brought a smokey aftertaste with it. The smokey flavor lingers and creates an undesireble character that reminds me of the last oatmeal stout that went down the drain.
Sample 3 has the similar silky appearance and mouthfeel. The roast flavor is slightly stronger than sample 2. The smokey aftertaste seems less intrusive but by no means pleasent and carries a slight cholate note with it.
After this experiment I can see now how the pH in the boil can affect the final outcome of the beer. With new knowledge gained I will keep trying to create a more satisfying Stout by doing research and tweaking my recipe.
In conclusion I will be keeping the beer as is. I will be splitting the 3-gallon batch in two.
I will package one half as is to to see how carbonation and age effects it. I will add cocoa nibs to the second half to see what they can attribute to the beer.
Once again I thank all of you for your input.
Cheers
Keep in mind that fermentation will further lower the pH. In other words boil ph might be 5.5, but final beer might be more like 4.5. 4.5 for a Stout seems a tad high to me. My pale beers end up there. My Irish dry stout finishes 3.8-4 and my American Stout finishes about 4.2-4.4. (From memory… could be off a smidge). This is actual finished carbonated beer that I tested after degassing.
Also, keep in mind that carbonation drops ph a little too because of carbonic acid. But not a whole lot.
Thanks Jim.
Do yo know what your pre boil pH is?
Do you add salts pre boil to achieve a certain range?
Curtis.
Well, pre boil would be mash… so for me, about 5.4. That might drop to 5.2-5 post boil depending of several things, sometimes no change.
While in the past I did a lot of ph testing along the way, now i only worry about mash ph. The rest is handled by healthy vigorous fermentation.