orange zest and bittering

[wort-h.o.g]

made a summer wheat ale with 2 small oranges grated zest. 25IBU and it has a really nice orange smell and flavor to it - just what i was looking for.

questions came to mind though. would orange zest on its own in the right quantity serve as a similar bittering agent as hops? no idea just popped in my head and wonder if anyone has done it or if its feasible.

[kramerog]

The pith of the orange is used for bittering in a traditional wit, but the pith is not a preservative unlike hops.

[wort-h.o.g]

@kramerog

The pith of the orange is used for bittering in a traditional wit, but the pith is not a preservative unlike hops.

I thought ascorbic acid was a preservative. Pith does contain quite bit of vitamin c ( said to be as much as the fruit itself) so perhaps it does preserve?

That aside, the orange zest  and pith should work to add enough bitterness to balance the malt ?

[erockrph]

Ascorbic acid is an antioxidant, not a preservative. And there’s not much in the skin of an orange - it is primarily in the juice.

You could always bitter to a low amount of IBU’s with hops, then use orange peel to get the majority of your actual bitterness. That would be the best of both worlds if you’re looking to go that route.

[wort-h.o.g]

@erockrph

Ascorbic acid is an antioxidant, not a preservative. And there’s not much in the skin of an orange - it is primarily in the juice.

You could always bitter to a low amount of IBU’s with hops, then use orange peel to get the majority of your actual bitterness. That would be the best of both worlds if you’re looking to go that route.

Hmm. Here’s what I’m reading Eric :

Preserving Properties
Ascorbic acid neutralizes oxygen when it comes into contact with it. Oxygen allows foods to continue to ripen, an aging process similar to the one people go through that ends in death. Oxygen is also vital for many microorganisms to thrive, some of which cause decay. Ascorbic acid slows or neutralizes these events. The substance blocks cured meat’s propensity to form carcinogens called nitrosamines, for example. In the process, the vitamin also preserves the flesh’s red color. In addition, ascorbic acid preserves flavor.

Food-Preservation Mechanism
Canned vegetables, bottled juices, jams and other preserved fruit are processed foods manufacturers protect with ascorbic acid. The vitamin’s acidity makes it hard for the enzyme phenolase to act. Phenolase accelerates oxidation, a chemical process in which oxygen level rises, resulting in decay. This is also the process that ascorbic acid combats.

[erockrph]

@erockrph

Ascorbic acid is an antioxidant, not a preservative. And there’s not much in the skin of an orange - it is primarily in the juice.

You could always bitter to a low amount of IBU’s with hops, then use orange peel to get the majority of your actual bitterness. That would be the best of both worlds if you’re looking to go that route.

Hmm. Here’s what I’m reading Eric :

Preserving Properties
Ascorbic acid neutralizes oxygen when it comes into contact with it. Oxygen allows foods to continue to ripen, an aging process similar to the one people go through that ends in death. Oxygen is also vital for many microorganisms to thrive, some of which cause decay. Ascorbic acid slows or neutralizes these events. The substance blocks cured meat’s propensity to form carcinogens called nitrosamines, for example. In the process, the vitamin also preserves the flesh’s red color. In addition, ascorbic acid preserves flavor.

Food-Preservation Mechanism
Canned vegetables, bottled juices, jams and other preserved fruit are processed foods manufacturers protect with ascorbic acid. The vitamin’s acidity makes it hard for the enzyme phenolase to act. Phenolase accelerates oxidation, a chemical process in which oxygen level rises, resulting in decay. This is also the process that ascorbic acid combats.

The preservative properties of ascorbic acid are due to its ability to scavenge oxygen. This inhibits or delays oxidation, which does enhance storage stability of food products. In particular, it helps slow the oxidation of fats, which leads to off flavors and rancidity.

Ascorbic acid is not antimicrobial. In fact, the main bacteria we are using hops to inhibit (Lactobacillis) is anaerobic. That means ascorbic acid may hypothetically be beneficial for lactobacillus by reducing the amount of oxygen in the beer. Vitamin C prevents spoilage from oxygen, rather than from microbes.

[wort-h.o.g]

@erockrph

@erockrph

Ascorbic acid is an antioxidant, not a preservative. And there’s not much in the skin of an orange - it is primarily in the juice.

You could always bitter to a low amount of IBU’s with hops, then use orange peel to get the majority of your actual bitterness. That would be the best of both worlds if you’re looking to go that route.

Hmm. Here’s what I’m reading Eric :

Preserving Properties
Ascorbic acid neutralizes oxygen when it comes into contact with it. Oxygen allows foods to continue to ripen, an aging process similar to the one people go through that ends in death. Oxygen is also vital for many microorganisms to thrive, some of which cause decay. Ascorbic acid slows or neutralizes these events. The substance blocks cured meat’s propensity to form carcinogens called nitrosamines, for example. In the process, the vitamin also preserves the flesh’s red color. In addition, ascorbic acid preserves flavor.

Food-Preservation Mechanism
Canned vegetables, bottled juices, jams and other preserved fruit are processed foods manufacturers protect with ascorbic acid. The vitamin’s acidity makes it hard for the enzyme phenolase to act. Phenolase accelerates oxidation, a chemical process in which oxygen level rises, resulting in decay. This is also the process that ascorbic acid combats.

The preservative properties of ascorbic acid are due to its ability to scavenge oxygen. This inhibits or delays oxidation, which does enhance storage stability of food products. In particular, it helps slow the oxidation of fats, which leads to off flavors and rancidity.

Ascorbic acid is not antimicrobial. In fact, the main bacteria we are using hops to inhibit (Lactobacillis) is anaerobic. That means ascorbic acid may hypothetically be beneficial for lactobacillus by reducing the amount of oxygen in the beer. Vitamin C prevents spoilage from oxygen, rather than from microbes.

Ahha…thanks for that clarification.

So perhaps 10 ibu or so with hops is prudent.

[erockrph]

Ahha…thanks for that clarification.

So perhaps 10 ibu or so with hops is prudent.

Can’t hurt. But to completely contradict myself, this is a style that probably wouldn’t be hurt by some slowly building lactic acidity. If you skip the hops and a little lacto develops it might not be so bad either. Sounds like a fun experiment either way.

[skatz (Stevie)]

You could go the lambic route and use some old hops.

[ynotbrusum]

So use ascorbic acid addition to a Lacto starter made from a handful of malt in the wort?  To lower the O2 and to inhibit aerobic bacteria strains?

[erockrph]

@ynotbrusum

So use ascorbic acid addition to a Lacto starter made from a handful of malt in the wort?  To lower the O2 and to inhibit aerobic bacteria strains?

It’s worth an experiment at the very least. That’s probably best suited if you have good, but not great, means of reducing O2 pickup (such as the Saran Wrap on the wort trick).