My last two pale lagers with w34/70 have had an off flavor that really bugs me and that I have posted about before. I get kind of the stinky feet isovaleric acid thing but that doesn’t appear to be the problem as most equate that to old hops.
I use the accelerated lager method. By rushing these too much or pulling of the yeast to soon cause flavor problems like this? What about underpitching? In both cases the flavor starts to show up after about a week in the keg.
I will add I have never detected this flavor in any other beer I have brewed; ale or lager. It accentuates the malt character. I have tasted it multiple times in other local pale lagers and am more sensitive to it than my friends seem to be.
Definitely more sweaty gym sock if that makes sense and it seems to come through in the flavor and not aroma. The last lager improved immensely after a couple of months which makes me think it is not an infection however it seems to come on like an infection. The current beer tasted fantastic as it was carbing but then I started to taste the flavor and it has gotten stronger.
I don’t think it is the hops but I can’t be sure. Some were from brand new sealed bags and some were not. They are different beers with different hops as well.
Since it goes away eventually and smells I thought maybe sulfur.
Sulfur is usually described as rotten eggs. That’s what I smell from the fermenter when sulfur is out gassing. But in the beer, I think the taste is more complex and I am not sure I can adequately describe what I associate with sulfur. I think sulfur comes across as similar to skunked flavor to me.
This article has a table of descriptors which may help.
I had a beer years back that smelled of old dirty socks. It was the only one I had like that, and attribute it to some Glacier whole hops that had not been stored properly before I got them, it was a 1 lb bag. Yep isovolaric acid.
Alright well I thought there might be a more common explanation possibly regarding a poor lager fermentation or rushing them. I do remember pushing these beers more than I should have.
You should be able to pick it up in the hops themselves if it is isovaleric acid. However, not meaning to overlook the obvious but: when was the last time you cleaned your lines?
Sulfur can also present itself in a burnt match smell.
Yeah, this reminds me that I should probably clean mine as well. But he said it was only in this beer, I believe.
The only time I’ve had this type of off flavor/aroma, I’ve attributed it to old hops, whether stored properly or not, I think they can go stale over time from opening and resealing, etc. which is why I plan to start buying my hops by the 4oz bag.
That’s a good thought. It’s been a while. I flushed the lines with star san when swapping the full keg for the empty keg but did not officially clean them. I think that the other lager that exhibited the off flavor may have been on the same tap but I cannot recall…
I’ve brewed several beers with 34/70 around 65F using typical ale timeframes (several days of primary fermentation and packaged 10-20 days after pitching). No off flavors. If yeast are the culprits it would be a defect in your process (e.g. severely underpitching or pulling off the yeast way too early) rather than the choice of yeast or using an accelerated schedule.
I’ve never heard anyone else describe it like this, but DMS in beer, at me at least, sorta tastes like blue cheese. Again, this is just my palate, but maybe its what you’re tasting?
I don’t know my off flavors very well. DMS is also described as cooked corn a lot as well?
Blue cheese; maybe. I will have to re-evaluate as sweaty gym sock still sticks in my head as the best descriptor however I can see how that can be similar to blue cheese :o
Soaking the line in PBW overnight. I kind of remember cleaning the line on the first lager that had this flavor with no change. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Isovaleric acid is one of those flavors where we have MAJOR threshold differences. It cannot be tasted at all by a good chunk of the population (me included). I was at a Siebel off tasting seminar, and when they brought that out, most folks were making the nasty foul-taste face, while others of us happily drank away like it wasn’t there (because to us, it wasn’t).
I usually get DMS as vegetal, more like boiled cabbage, and occasionally like shellfish (clams or oysters). Sulphur comes across to me like farts or rotten eggs, but it will often dissipate if I swirl the glass.
Lots of lagers tend to display multiple symptoms simultaneously. This is usually due to weak fermentation – lack of cell count and/or not enough nutrients or O2. I don’t know how the new move towards lo oxygen affects beers. I assume the idea there is don’t add o2 and really boost cell count so no cell growth is required.
If you want to send me a bottle, I’d be happy to see if I can help diagnose it for you.
PM me.