I have never calculated how may yeast cells I was pitching per liter before. I have had a calculator do that for me a bunch and then followed the recommendations, which has worked well but I have never decided to pitch X million cells per ml of wort. Not on my own. I have found information on pitching rates but there is just too much out there to know what is what. Or maybe I’m over thinking it. One big problem for me is “Fresh” vs repitch. Does anyone have guidelines that they have arrived at after weighing multiple reputable sources against their own experience and knowledge? I just don’t have enough to go on to be know which numbers are right. I am concerned with this detail because I have a split batch experiment going on and would like to have a relatively exacting starting point as well as understanding of proper pitching rates going forward.
You should check out the recent threads here detailing the “Shaken, Not Stirred” starter method. Besides explaining a great type of starter, there is loads of information about yeast that may answer a ton of questions for you.
“New Starter Procedure Trial” is a good place to start.
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Thaks, I am all over this board. I familiar with Shaken not stired starter and have read through most of the starter procedure trial thread.
The first paragraph of marks response illustrates my question and concern here.
The information I am interested in very specifically is pitch rates, in number of cells per volume of wort. The information available from reputable sources is not the same across the board and does not always address Fresh pitch vs repitch.
That is what I started this thread to discuss in detail.
There is no one correct pitching rate, and chasing one is a fool’s errand. One should pitch for performance, and the only way to gather that information is to experiment in one’s brew house. I guarantee you that any pitching rate between 3 and 10 billion cells per liter will produce a drinkable beer. The difference will lie in the desired metabolic byproducts. Beer without metabolic byproducts is bland tasting.
I understand and agree with the fact that ideal pitching rates depend on many things and that experimentation is required. What I’m looking for is the best possible jumping off point for experimentation. Perhaps I am over thinking it. Perhaps I am not communicating as effectively as I thought I was. Or maybe it’s some combination thereof. Any way, at this point I will probably just use a calculator as a starting point.
Yeast calculators are very conservative.
I will keep that in mind.
+1
lots of overwhelming technical information being discussed here lately. it’s over my head and i’m sticking with what has worked for the time being. i guess the takeaway for me is that i’ll take the calculator’s information with a bigger dose of salt.
Make that a huge dose of salt
I used to go with that 1b per ml per º thing. Or did I? Because I don’t count cells. So unless I count, whats the worry whether its actually .75 or 1 or 1.5 billion per ml per º?
Lately ive been letting the cells do the counting
This might help, go to the ale and lager sections at the bottom.
http://byo.com/grains/item/1717-yeast-pitching-rates-advance-homebrewing
A local brewpub that makes British influenced ales with WLP-022 will double the pitch rate if they want a cleaner American style ale. The take away is to get to know your yeast’s performance and how to make the style of beer with it.
Excluding all the technical info that’s been discussed in the last few weeks, this seems to be the ultimate takeaway and the spirit, on a basic level, of said discussion.
Get to know your yeast.
That is a good in depth write up. Its one of the articles that started to make my head spin and ask who is right and what the correct nominal pitch rate is under new vs repitch conditions.
The bit about doubleing up to get a different style is very interesting. Perhaps I can find a favorite dual purpose yeast…
Is there some way to roughly quantify this dose of salt? Or is correct salt dosage of yeast calculators best determined through experimentation in ones own brew house?
I am working on it! Just installed heat in my 1993 custom deluxe model fermidaire and started a old fashioned fermentation log.(Comp notebook)
Thanks for the perspective/levity Jim, I have been pretty intense about this yeast business lately. I needed the laugh.
Its tongue in cheek to an extent. But an element of truth there. Ive been told that beer will ferment with one cell. The trouble is that something else may take hold while you wait for that ~90min doubling rate to go from 1 cell to 1,000,000,000 cells. So if I get ~100 billion from wyeast and get them fired up in a liter, and pitch while they have their thing fired up, I figure in fairly short time they will figure out how many troops they need to do the job. Rather than trying to start with the right amount when I don’t know how many I actually have… I let them do the counting.
This goes right back to Mark’s statement that there is no one correct pitch rate. The right pitch depends on the results you’re looking for.
The yeast calculators might be a good jumping off point, but you’ll need to do some split batches or several consecutive batches with different pitch rates to determine what works for you.
For those who somehow think that I am making this stuff up, read the first bullet under section number 4 of the PDF linked below. The range Lallemand states for a pitching rate of 1 gram per liter yields a pitching rate of 5 to 10 million cells per milliliter, which is equal to 5 to 10 billion cells per liter. Lallemand then includes the following language: “A brewer may experiment with the pitching rate to achieve a desired beer style or to suit processing conditions.” Like I said, the correct pitching rate is the one that produces the desired result.
http://www.danstaryeast.com/system/files/pdfs/tds-bry-97-american-west-coast-yeast-english.pdf
Mark, I personally do not believe that you make this stuff up. You are constantly citing reputable sources. If my mildly sarcastic salt question led you to believe other wise then strike it from the record. It was actually a serious question asked in a not so serious way.
Just trying out my new sig.
Thanks Jim.