REVISED - 5/20/2020
Here are the previous posts where we dug deep into the topic:
“Rochefort 4”:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=26158.45
“Rochefort 6 Clone”:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=30994.0
Here is my detailed writeup on the subject:
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=717
Curious about the yeast. In general I’ve never been much of a fan of White Labs 540. I had better results cropping and reusing from a lower gravity batch, then making an 8/10. Checking White Labs website now says “This strain may benefit from extra oxygen”, but the brewery doesn’t do open fermentations or rousing like a british top cropping strain.
I prefer 1762.
With that said, you should key in on the following:
"They brew two batches each day Tuesday to Thursday, and one on Friday morning. All seven of those batches go into the same fermenter, right on top of each other."
Each subsequent batch is being pitched, with yeast, on top of an already fermenting batch. Their yeast is conditioned for that, which could also explain why people report that 1762 in particular benfits from a few repitches before hitting it’s stride.
Another cool thing to notice is the pitch rates:
6 = 0.86 10⁶/ml/°P
8 = 0.79 10⁶/ml/°P
10 = 0.66 10⁶/ml/°P
Most would look at that and say, "How the hell do they get away with a LOWER pitch rate for the 10?
Since we know that they repitch in order (slurry from the 6 into the 8 and 8 into the 10), and that they are performing a sort of drauflassen, you can imagine that by the time that stuff hits the 10, it’s at what Duane Allman would have referred to as “full tilt boogie”, i.e. very healthy.
Have you brewed any of these yourself yet? I could try the 6 or the 8 soon (maybe next month).
It’s been years since I read BLAM, do we have any info regarding their mash process? I’d probably start with my typical hochkurz.
Cool post, thanks for organizing all that information.
I have not.
What I am planning to do, however, is to start brewing very small batches, on the order of 2.64 liters of finished beer, to experiment with these.
They never disclose the actual mash schedule in BLAM, but a simple 3 step along the lines of the following would probably work just fine:
Beta - 148 for 20-25 minutes
Alpha - 162 for 30 minutes
Mashout 172 for 10 minutes
That I can handle (even more easily with some new equipment recently purchased). It looks like I can order wheat starch from Amazon and Sinamar from one of the online homebrew shops. Those will both be new ingredients for me.
I’ll give the 6 a try. Nothing about the recipe or process looks overly complicated.
And I just bought a half pound of Styrian Goldings, though I’ll need to order some Hallertau. I assume that’s H. Mittelfruh?
Think that’s liters of post-boil volume? I’ll err on the conservative side. Maybe I can find some of that Indian coriander at Whole Foods, which conveniently is also where I can pick up a bottle of real Rochefort 6.
If you can get corn starch, that should be a very reasonable alternative. That what they used to use and it seems they only discontinued it for reasons of faith (GMO considerations).
Also, research indicates Hallertau may have been replaced with Aramis.
They add the coriander at the end of the boil so pre-boil would be the one.
Those recipes look remarkably like what Herman Holtrop came up with 20 years ago.
I only know of the Holtrop recipe for Rochefort 8, which is a bit different, i.e. specialty malts, dark Candi rocks, flaked corn, etc.
Are there different recipes?
If this recipe works out, I’d certainly be in good company. The Holtrop recipe is a classic. I shouldn’t say I either. I just simply took the brewery’s recipe for the 6 and scaled up.
Yeah, those are differences, but they’re based on what they were doing when he was there…plus some educated guessing! He just scaled for the different versions, too, IIRC. I’m looking forward to trying this version. And I couldn’t agree more about the 1762!
I’m going to update the OP tomorrow with the remainder of my research. I’m going to try and reorganize it into a more functional narrative from Mash to fermenter as well.
I fully revised the OP this morning with some fermentation discussion and my references.
My store carries Florida Crystals brand but I cannot find Raw Cane Invert Syrup. They have Lyle’s Golden Syrup but I am not sure it is invert. I am also not finding it on the Florida Crystals website. Have I overlooked something?
https://www.floridacrystals.com/products/liquid-organic-raw-cane-sugar
I’m pretty sure it says invert on the actually ingredients section on the bottle.
Most cane syrup is not inverted. Lyles Golden Syrup is partially inverted. Can’t say about the FC. Making invert is very easy.
I can only go by what the bottle says, which i’m pretty sure is “Invert Syrup”.
Are you still using ProMash?
I’ve been playing around with it again, as Excel runs a bit slow on my laptop. I was thinking of throwing some ProMash recipe files together.
Yep. I don’t see any reason not to.
Miraculously, I had a bit of free time last night, and this is what I came up with as an initial draft.
Roche #6
6 gallon batch, targeting 71% efficiency (no sparge)
11.75 lbs. German Pils (77%)
1.5 lbs. Wheat Starch (9.9%)
2 lbs. Brun Fonce (13.1%)
1 oz. Aramis (5%) at 60 minutes
1 oz. Styrian Goldings (2.5%) at 20 minutes
3 grams coriander seed at 5 minutes
77 grams Sinamar (flameout I suppose?)
Wyeast 1762 (pitch around 300 billion cells, assuming 5.25 gallons into the fermentor; oxygenate wort with tank/stone for 2 minutes)
Pitch yeast at 68°, hold for 2 days, and let free rise into the low 70s.
OG: 1.072
FG Target: 1.010-1.012 (it’s been a long time since I’ve used 1762, not exactly sure what to expect in terms of AA%; I’ll check my notes from the last time I brewed with it)
IBU: 18.5
Water (Using distilled and salts, I can’t get to 80 ppm calcium without really overshooting the sulfate and chloride; I think this is a good compromise)
Calcium: 55 ppm
Sodium: 10 ppm
Sulfate: 74 ppm
Chloride: 58 ppm
8.75 ml of phosphoric acid in mash (much prefer acid malt these days though)
Bru’n Water projected mash pH = 5.4
Step mash with rests at 148°, 163°, and 170°
I’m assuming wheat starch has the same extract potential as flaked wheat, but I have no idea if that’s true. It’s only 9.9% of the fermentables, so it shouldn’t be a big deal as long as it’s reasonably close.
That’s everything I can think of at the moment. Thoughts?
That checks out as far as the maths are concerned.
Yup. I would at it at the very end.
Sanity check → M/ml/P = ( 300 / 17.5 ) / 19.87 = ~0.86
Looks good!
I didn’t really go into this but it is impossible to match the flavor ions in their water exactly. Hit 50 ppm Ca and do the best you can with the other minerals. Nothing really different than what i would do for any beer.
I’m honestly not 100% sure. I’d imagine the extract potential is more on the order of wheat malt but I can’t be sure. I’ve assumed about 75% for starters.
I can’t really see a reason not to use Corn Starch if it’s easier to get. I would have to order Wheat Starch online to get some so I will be looking for a decent Corn Starch at the grocery store.