When it comes to making dark beers such as Stout and Porter, likely the two most popular grains are Roasted Barley and Black Malt (aka Black Patent). Each of these grains is produced differently and said to impart a different character, the former smoother and the latter ashy. Curious as to the validity of such claims, we attempted to figure it out ourselves. Results are in!
Excellent. Keep up the good work.
I wonder if homebrewers who did not like black patent were not properly adjusting the mash pH. The pH readings suggest that black patent is more acidic than the other dark malts even at the same nominal lovibond value.
Entirely possible
Yep, 5.6 pH definitely softens it. Or roasted barley for that matter.
The exbeeriment pointed out one of the big flaws in predicting mashing pH…the acidity of roast grains vary quite a bit and that variation has no correlation to the roast color. The only saving grace is that roast grains are typically used at low percentage in most brews and their effect on pH is reduced for that reason.
I’ll have to see if some sense can be made of roast grain acidity to possibly parse the roasts into categories that would improve pH prediction.
Interesting experiment, thanks for doing that. I’ve gotten some “ashtray” feedback on my last batch of Cascadian Dark Ale which I use Black Patent in and I’ve been debating switching to Roasted Barley. Several people in my club seem to think that’s a good idea, but seems like it might be a matter of personal preference.
I’ll probably give it a try and see what I think.
Try Carafa Special 3 malt first. It has the husk removed so you get less ashy/bitter/burnt flavor out of it.
Midnight Wheat as well.
I’ve gone back to using a bit of black patent in some of my dark beers. I found that I went too far the other way with carafa and Midnight Wheat. The beers were getting smooth to the point of being almost insipid. A couple oz. of black patent restored the “oomph” I was looking for.
Would it make a difference if the black patent were to be added to the mash just before vorlauf?
When I was in Ireland last fall, a very small brewery produced a stout called Burren Black which I thought was outstanding. The brewer told me he uses both roasted barley and black patent in it.
Greg Noonan, RIP, suggested doing just that, but the flavor impact from dark grains added after the mash is a lot less than added at the start of the mash.
I’ve never really understood this logic either. It seems to me that adding dark grains later would just be the same as adding less dark grains.
Same here. To me it’s just so much easier to mash it all together at a higher pH. To each his own though.
Yeah, exactly. Gordon Strong does this and he’s accomplished more than I probably ever will in this field. Barring evidence to change my mind, I’m neither going to change the way I do it nor assume that he is somehow “wrong”.
Not quite, but your contention is somewhat valid.
The main benefit of adding roast grain late in the mash is that it avoids depressing the mash pH too low during that early stage which would reduce the body of the resulting beer. While the wort pH is reduced when the roast is added later, the body of the wort is more established. You just end up with a somewhat tarter beer.
As implied in other posts, roast flavors tend to be more pleasant when the wort pH is a little bit higher than normal, say 5.4 to 5.6. Adjusting your mashing water alkalinity to provide you with that higher pH can be a better way to produce pleasing dark beers. Using low alkalinity mashing water and adding the roast late in the mash can leave you wanting. The low alkalinity/reserve the roast technique does have its place though. Beers like Dry Stout, Black IPA, Schwartzbier can benefit from that technique. Just recognize that it is likely to be lacking in other stout and porter styles.
Great point, thanks! I got caught up in the flavor/sugar extraction mindset and was completely overlooking the pH aspect.
Since my water is relatively low alkalinity most recipes with significant proportions of dark grains do require me to add a little baking soda. It seems like this technique could be a viable alternative from a pH control standpoint, but I see your point that it might produce less stellar results than hitting the desired mash pH with all of the grains in place.
Oh, thanks. Someone had mentioned Midnight Wheat and I forgot, so thanks for the reminder! I’ll look into the Carafa as well. My CDA recipe is my best recipe that I’ve made the most and I’m slowly dialing it in. To the point now of just minor changes and tweaks.