Rye Pale Ale: Where to now?

I have brewed 14 batches of Rye Pale Ale since January 2018. Batch 1 was 15% rye, and that was followed by several batches at 20%. Batches 8 through 13 saw it rise from 25% to 30%, and batch 14 (the most recent) at 35%. I have thoroughly enjoyed the beer, and though I’m not using rice hulls I have never had a hint of a stuck sparge (but I suspect that 35% is pushing it with both hands and both feet ;-).

I understand that rye is a subtle flavor, and that I should avoid anything that will hide it, but I’m wondering if there’s something I can do to make this beer shine even brighter. Suggestions are welcome.

TIA,
Charlie

Are you using rye malt or flaked rye?

Rye malt, no flakes. The LHBS gets rye malt both from Briess and a company called Proximity.

I can only guess as to your hopping regimen, but I’ll assume my next advice would be to cut your late hops down in half or just 33% as much, to make the rye flavor really shine through.

I made a rye porter a few years ago and added caraway seeds to steep.
I gotta brew that again.

I live in the land of Rye and use more of it than many commercial brewers, even at 100% rye [which I have done a few times] you’ll probably never get a beer that strongly exhibits the flavors that are attributed to rye - at least by the maltsters, i.e. fruity & nutty. What you definitely will get, and eventually come to start  noticing is beer that has a fundamentally different mouthfeel than rye-less beers. My perception is that the more solid foundation of a high percentage rye beer changes the flavor contributions of all the ingredients [ya, I know, that sounds like a load of psycho-babble horse nonsense], maybe like the difference between using water colors on a canvas versus on a brick wall.
  As for percentages, I’ve done probably 70 or so brews using various amounts of rye, from my experience anything over 30% or so you’re risking a seriously stuck mash without rice hulls. That’s not a hard and fast rule, I’ve gotten away with a 60% rye beer and no hulls, and had train wrecks with 40% rye beers with plenty of hulls. I’ve done a few stepped mashes with attempted glucosidase rests with the idea being to improve lautering porosity, but have yet to hit the intended temp range for the rest [all the infusion calculators I’ve found are totally FU].
  FWIW, the All Rye beers are really weird to drink, they have the viscosity of about 20 weight motor oil and the bubbles rise to the surface in extra slow motion. Surprisingly little in the way of unique flavors though.

That sounds like a good match! I’m going to look into it.

Charlie

I have found that adding more rye to a beer adds a peppery note to the beer.  Although that is not a bad thing, it can get a bit overpowering if you use too much.

THIS.  NOT spicy.  NOT caraway.

Of course not caraway…that’s a totally different thing. But I definitely get spicy.  I have gone as high as 60% rye.  2ho problem lautering, but I didn’t really care for the beer.  Also, I do a huge amout of late hops in my rye IPA and it doesn’t cover up the rye.

I had an excellent rye witbeir from a brew pub which, of course, made me want to brew one, and is the reason I tried my first partial mash. I’ve never been able to get that rye taste using up to 33% rye malt. I’ve been thinking of trying caraway seeds myself.

I used caraway to mimic the taste of dark rye bread.

what’s considered a huge amount of late hops?

For me, 2-3 oz. dry hops

Ok. Just making sure. Thanks

Pumpernickel beer? I’ve never managed to make a rye beer that tastes like rye bread, but I’ve never really tried. Interesting idea though - I dearly love pumpernickel bread, I doubt that adding caraway is the secret though. My experience with caraway in beer is a lot of extra bitterness but very little of the aromatic aspect of those wondrous little seeds.

As a big fan and and baker of real European style rye breads, I just have to get this off my chest.  Caraway has no place whatsoever in rye bread.  In Sauerkraut, in cheese, in lots of stuff.  Not rye bread.  (The American breads containing it are virtually devoid of rye.)  Rye itself, when fermented, whether by Sauerteig (sourdough) or by beer yeast, has a very distinctive, malty-fruity flavor.  Maybe you have made beer that tastes like rye bread, but have never had the pleasure of experiencing the real taste of rye bread. There, I feel better now.  Carry on.

Not disputing your claim, Rob, as you are way more knowledgeable about bread making than I am.  However, I made a pumpernickel porter last year and researched a lot of recipes for the bread before I brewed it. I got the idea for the beer from the Tamoka Brewery in Port Orange, FL who made a good one.  Yes, pumpernickel is a dark rye bread but every recipe I looked at had caraway seed in it.  I brewed my rye porter with more rye than I normally use and added caraway seed to it.  It came out pretty good the first time and I entered it in a competition in Cleveland where it was well received.  One of the judges said it needed more caraway which I am a bit reluctant to do since the spice can get a bit overpowering quickly.

But caraway in an authentic rye bread, I agree that it should not be there although I have had some from bakeries that put it in there.  But they are not baking to the European style.

Thanks for the enlightenment Rob, but I’m gonna continue to put caraway in my rye bread, cuz I like it that way and cuz I’m a heathen and really don’t give a flip if what I consume conforms to any standard other than what tastes good to me ;). Interestingly, I’ve found that just about any treber flour that contains dark grains will give bread a definite rye flavor, caraway or no caraway.
  I am curious how it came to be that rye bread in this country almost always contains caraway, are we Americans just never content to leave stuff as we found it?

Sorry, I didn’t mean to rant or anything.  I just so often see the comment, “I had a rye beer and couldn’t taste rye,” or “it didn’t add the flavor I heard it would.”  Most, unlike you obviously, have never tasted rye, though.  In American commercial rye breads, I can’t detect any rye flavor.  They, even the dark ones (basically white bread and caramel color,) normally contain only enough rye flour to make it over the “and less than 2% of” line on the ingredient list so they can legally call it rye bread, and all the characteristic flavor comes from caraway or other ingredients.

So yeah, put whatever you want in your beer.  Or bread.  That’s why we do it ourselves.  Just saying,  rye has a very unique flavor but it can be masked by the spice.  And rye itself is delicious  and worth discovering.

And just to be fair I should probably bake a loaf of caraway-laden deli-style rye bread again soon.  Even that’s way better homemade than store bought.