So, this is a new style to me and I am starting with a 2.5 gallon batch (4 gallons in the boil):
4 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Simpson Double Roast
4 oz. Chocolate
2 oz. Carafa II
Boil additions (1 hour boil):
1 lb Molasses
4oz. Lactose
60 Min 1 oz. East Kent Goldings; 30 minute add .5 oz EKG
Fermenting with S-23 in the low 60’s F.
Any thoughts on this style or recipe as proposed?
I think the grain bill looks okay, but I don’t think you need any lactose and 1# of molasses is a lot for a 2.5 gallon batch. I can’t comment on a good yeast strain for this, but I do know I do not like S-23 at all. Maybe an Irish ale yeast or you could go with Fermentis 34/70 fermenting around 60F for a cleaner profile?
What type of molasses are you considering? My personal experience is that even a few ounces of the dark stuff is unpleasant.
I was not going to use black strap - something milder.
Here’s the BJCP flavor description:
Flavor: Quite sweet with a smooth dark grain flavors, and restrained bitterness. Roasted grain and malt character can be moderate to high with a smooth coffee or chocolate flavor, although the roast character is moderated in the balance by the sweet finish. Moderate to high fruity esters. Can have a sweet, dark rum-like quality. Little to no hop flavor. Medium-low to no diacetyl.
And the ingredients per BJCP:
Characteristic Ingredients: Similar to a sweet stout, but with more gravity. Pale and dark roasted malts and grains. Hops mostly for bitterness. May use adjuncts and sugar to boost gravity. Typically made with warm-fermented lager yeast.
This newly recognized style is fermented with estery lager yeast and S-23 has the most of that as far as I know.
I use 4 oz of Barbados molasses in my imperial stout and it is noticeable. Much more and it starts to become a dominant flavor.
Using a pound might give you molasses beer. Which is fine if that’s what you want.
I appreciate the concerns and I will tone it back to 4 oz. of molasses - I will use the Barbadian without the Blackstrap and unsulphured. As a Tropical Stout, the beer needs to be sweet per the style, however. I am not sure if molasses can dominate, but the style definitely contemplates Caribbean influence on the sweetness and molasses is that.
This is not a beer I intend to make habitually…it is for a club contest for this new style in the 2015 BJCP style guide (hence only the 2.5 gallon batch that I will bottle condition). We had a commercial example of the style a few months back and it was so badly oxidized that the style flavor was somewhat lost on us.
Just wondering if anyone has brewed the style and any additional feedback is welcome. I have all the ingredients other than the lactose and the molasses, so I intend to make it Sunday, if all goes as planned.
I don’t think molasses adds sweetness. It will boost the alcohol, for sure. It ferments out pretty well, like honey, but leaves more flavor behind.
The lactose will bring some sweetness, though.
Agreed, Joe. I wasn’t terribly clear. I was expecting it to leave some residual “cane”-like flavor, but ferment out mostly, if not entirely. The lactose is intended to ensure some residual unfermented sugars giving it sweetness, but if the lager yeast leaves some “molasses” flavor behind, I am hoping it compliments the fruity esters and sweetness to some degree to give complexity.
I see it very much like honey added to a honey lemon Koelsch to give floral notes to balance the citrus.
I could be convinced otherwise - this is my first fling on this style.
I believe when they say sweetness, they are referring to crystal malts and perhaps a higher FG leaving some of that residual mouthfeel behind in the finished product. I don’t think you need lactose to get you there. I think some munich malt and layering of two crystals should be more than enough.
I still would not use S-23 for this. I think 34/70 would be better. Even if you ferment it around 72F ala Brulosophy.
I wouldn’t use lactose either. I see it as a slightly bigger American stout,.finishing fairly dry but without the late hop character . WY 1028 is great for this style.
Edit for Lion Stout being the only example I’ve had. It’s very tasty.
Good thoughts all. I still see this as essentially an Imperial Sweet Stout. Lactose is not required, but it should fit in well. A touch of Munich would work, but the Simosons double roast is quite sweet as a new crystal malt in the 110-120L range.
I see it as more of a foreign export stout style with perhaps a lager yeast to keep the fermentation profile fairly clean.
Good call - it’s pretty much a foreign export.
Actually per BJCP:
Characteristic Ingredients: Similar to a sweet stout, but with more gravity. Pale and dark roasted malts and grains. Hops mostly for bitterness. May use adjuncts and sugar to boost gravity. Typically made with warm-fermented lager yeast.
Style Comparison: Tastes like a scaled-up sweet stout with higher fruitiness. Similar to some Imperial Stouts without the high bitterness, strong/burnt roastiness, and late hops, and with lower alcohol. Much more sweet and less hoppy than American Stouts. Much sweeter and less bitter than the similar-gravity Export Stouts.
I just haven’t seen much written on this style…
Ok, cool. I hadn’t seen the guidelines. I was wrong on the Lion Stout - it’s brewed in Sri Lanka (which is why I assumed it was considered a tropical stout), but it’s actually classified as a foreign export. So my impressions of it were based on a foreign export flavor profile. My bad.
Lion Stout is under Tropical Stout in the 2015 guidelines.
Interesting. Hey, I just remembered that I think Gordon Strong has a recipe for a Tropical Stout in his Modern Homebrew Recipe book. May want to check that out for some comparison to your idea. Thanks for sharing some insight on this interesting style. I don’t think I have ever truly had a real Tropical Stout. Well, that’s not fully true, as I have enjoyed a Lion Stout before…
Didn’t know that. There are references to it being a foreign export online - doesn’t obviously make it so. But in comparing the style guidelines, Lion tastes more like a foreign export to me.
Yes, Lion Stout is classified as a Tropical Stout. I’ve been working on trying to duplicate it for the past 4 years, with 2 dumpers, 1 decent attempt, and then there’s this year’s version. I don’t have my recipe notebook with me, but for a 5G batch, I use chocolate malt plus C60 and 120, but no roast barley. I also add a little honey malt. Mash at 153-154. I do add 8oz. molasses, but no lactose. I also add 4oz. cherry extract during late fermentation. This year’s experimentation was to use Perle, Citra and Moteuka hops to get some ‘tropical fruit’ flavor. Bottled it this past weekend, and it tasted pretty good. If it carbonates and conditions well, I’m thinking of submitting it to the Longshot competition. It’s just odd enough that Jim K. might appreciate it, if it ever gets that far.
If you’re really interested, Revvy on the HBT forum has a thread from 4-5 years ago that talks about his attempts and research into Lion Stout.
Any updates on this brewing attempt OP? I just prepared a very similar recipe and didn’t want it as dry as style guidelines suggest, so I planned on 8 oz of turbinado sugar (in lieu of molasses) and 4 oz as much lactose for a 3 gal batch, but haven’t brewed yet. The lactose sees a bit experimental and unpopular