W34/70 vs S-189

[system]

@Philbrew

While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don’t really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don’t have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.

Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I’ve used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don’t fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.

[Philbrew]

@Philbrew

While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don’t really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don’t have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.

Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I’ve used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don’t fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.

So, there is no technical problem with dry yeasts for lodo, it’s just a flavor preference thing?

My two batches are still in the fermenter.

[system]

@Philbrew

@Philbrew

While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don’t really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don’t have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.

Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I’ve used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don’t fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.

So, there is no technical problem with dry yeasts for lodo, it’s just a flavor preference thing?

My two batches are still in the fermenter.

Besides not enough sulfur, its purely just flavor(or really off flavors).

[ynotbrusum]

Is it a matter of re-pitching or are you finding the trouble in the initial pitch of dry yeast?  I have noticed a little lemon in a pilsner made with 34/70, but not to the degree of making it totally unacceptable.  But I acknowledge that I much prefer repitching with liquid yeasts and 2206 is my standard operating procedure (if I have it available) on Helles and Southern German beers.  I used to also use 838 quite a bit.

[system]

@ynotbrusum

Is it a matter of re-pitching or are you finding the trouble in the initial pitch of dry yeast?  I have noticed a little lemon in a pilsner made with 34/70, but not to the degree of making it totally unacceptable.  But I acknowledge that I much prefer repitching with liquid yeasts and 2206 is my standard operating procedure (if I have it available) on Helles and Southern German beers.  I used to also use 838 quite a bit.

Heh, any lemon in a pilsner, well the ones I try to emulate is. I couldn’t get any of them using any process( initial pitch, actual correct pitch rates, reptitches, etc) to do what I needed them to. 2206, or at this point( many many generations) some variant of is my house yeast, and I love it to death. I used to use a blend of 833/838, and that was nice as well.

[denny]

What about all the people who haven’t gotten lemon out of 34/70?

[system]

@denny

What about all the people who haven’t gotten lemon out of 34/70?

Maybe some folks can’t taste it? Maybe its how you ferment it?

Using the methods I outline here http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/cold-fermentation-practices/

It’s like a lemon drop.

[denny]

Maybe some folks can’t taste it? Maybe its how you ferment it?

Using the methods I outline here http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/cold-fermentation-practices/

It’s like a lemon drop.

Obviously everyone has differences in their tasting, but there are so many people who don’t have issues with it that I find it hard to believe it’s the yeast itself rather than the way it’s being used.

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

Thankfully I have not gotten any lemon out of 34/70 yet

[system]

@denny

Maybe some folks can’t taste it? Maybe its how you ferment it?

Using the methods I outline here http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/cold-fermentation-practices/

It’s like a lemon drop.

Obviously everyone has differences in their tasting, but there are so many people who don’t have issues with it that I find it hard to believe it’s the yeast itself rather than the way it’s being used.

I had little to no issues with it when I basically treated the beer like an ale. Fermented warm, ramped temp up towards the end of fermentation… I guess using all the standards that are taught today. However when low oxygen methods are implemented you really get clarity into where process and ingredients, can hurt flavor. Thats when the issues arose.

[denny]

I had little to no issues with it when I basically treated the beer like an ale. Fermented warm, ramped temp up towards the end of fermentation… I guess using all the standards that are taught today. However when low oxygen methods are implemented you really get clarity into where process and ingredients, can hurt flavor. Thats when the issues arose.

Interesting.  When I used it, it was with the traditional cold fermentation schedule, not the accelerated schedule.  Still no lemon.  Haven’t used it since I started using the fast fermentation, but I haven’t found it to make any difference with other lager yeasts.

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

@Philbrew

@Philbrew

While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don’t really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don’t have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.

Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I’ve used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don’t fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.

So, there is no technical problem with dry yeasts for lodo, it’s just a flavor preference thing?

My two batches are still in the fermenter.

Besides not enough sulfur, its purely just flavor(or really off flavors).

I am curious about the sulfur. Do you prefer the flavor of sulfur? I know some German lagers have a sulfur flavor, but, personally, I am not a fan of that flavor. I prefer a yeast that doesn’t leave sulfur flavor behind.

[system]

@alestateyall

@Philbrew

@Philbrew

While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don’t really exhibit the same properties. For instance 34/70 can throw lemon( I have never had 2124/830 do that), and none throw enough sulfur to help you post fermentation. Also interestingly they don’t have the same attenuation or floccuation characteristics. I have gone though my fair share of 500g bricks of both of these yeast, but for flavor and post fermentation protection nothing beats the liquid strains IMO, especially when you go with low oxygen brewing techniques. The game changes then.

Where I live (110 mi. to nearest LHBS), the convenience of having 6-8 different dry yeasts in the fridge is a big plus.
In my two lodo attempts so far, I’ve used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?

They don’t fit the flavor profiles and characteristics I want in a lager yeast.

So, there is no technical problem with dry yeasts for lodo, it’s just a flavor preference thing?

My two batches are still in the fermenter.

Besides not enough sulfur, its purely just flavor(or really off flavors).

I am curious about the sulfur. Do you prefer the flavor of sulfur? I know some German lagers have a sulfur flavor, but, personally, I am not a fan of that flavor. I prefer a yeast that doesn’t leave sulfur flavor behind.

I do, but just a touch. However sulfur is a great antioxidant and will help you post fermentation to keep low DO rates, preserving flavors and helping keep away the staling ones.

[RAAFAELRAMIREZ (duelerx)]

I never used S-189, does this yeast bring the same maltiness as WLP-833?

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

@goschman

@denny

I generally think pf 189 as more for malty styles and 34/70 for styles that don’t have as much body.  Both are equally easy to use and reliable.  I think for a schwarz I’d go with the 34/70.

The last beer I used 34/70 on (pilsner) I got 84% attenuation and the last S-189 I used (maibock which got my second highest score ever) got 79%.
Yes on the Schwarz with 34/70.

So you agree that 189 is better suited for maltier lagers as well?

Yes.

[hopfenundmalz]

@goschman

@denny

I generally think pf 189 as more for malty styles and 34/70 for styles that don’t have as much body.  Both are equally easy to use and reliable.  I think for a schwarz I’d go with the 34/70.

The last beer I used 34/70 on (pilsner) I got 84% attenuation and the last S-189 I used (maibock which got my second highest score ever) got 79%.
Yes on the Schwarz with 34/70.

So you agree that 189 is better suited for maltier lagers as well?

Yes.

Hurlimann used to brew Samichlaus. That is a Malty beer.  :o

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@hopfenundmalz

Hurlimann used to brew Samichlaus. That is a Malty beer.  :o

Understatement. :)  I just tried a 10 year old Samichlaus courtesy of the owner of Great Fermentations (LHBS). I’ve tried it many times, never @ 10 years. It was fantastic.

[mabrungard]

The descriptions of S-189 and W34/70 on the yeast website says that the S-189 attenuates 1% more than 34/70. In addition, it says that 189 is less fruity and is cleaner.

[BrewBama (Dwain)]

Sadly I think they are both sad excuses for real yeast… sorry

I’ve used both with great results. I prefer dry yeast because I get ingredients thru the mail and have had a few unsuccessful results with liquid yeast. It’s very ‘real’ for me. Cheers!

[system]

@hopfenundmalz

@goschman

@denny

I generally think pf 189 as more for malty styles and 34/70 for styles that don’t have as much body.  Both are equally easy to use and reliable.  I think for a schwarz I’d go with the 34/70.

The last beer I used 34/70 on (pilsner) I got 84% attenuation and the last S-189 I used (maibock which got my second highest score ever) got 79%.
Yes on the Schwarz with 34/70.

So you agree that 189 is better suited for maltier lagers as well?

Yes.

Hurlimann used to brew Samichlaus. That is a Malty beer.  :o

Bet they didn’t brew it with the dry equivalent of their yeast! ;D. Sorry had to.