W34/70 vs S-189

[hopfenundmalz]

@erockrph

I know that I’m a bit late to the conversation, but I wanted to chime in on a few things.

I use 34/70 quite a bit. I have fermented it using traditional lager fermentation schedules, accelerated lager schedules, and ale-like fermentations at temps anywhere from the mid 50’s to the mid 60’s. I have never gotten a lemon flavor from it. As a matter of fact, I find that 34/70 mutes lemon character from hops like Sterling, Motueka, Kazbek, etc. - varieties that give distinct citrus character with other yeasts.

I can’t refute that LODO could have something to do with it, as I have yet to incorporate that in the hot side. One other thing that comes to mind is that if the LODO brewers that get this character are using saurgut, maybe the yeast is somehow enhancing the lemony, Berliner Weisse character from the acid fermentation rather than producing this during fermentation.

I have also noticed the lack of sulfur production from dry lager strains. While I don’t want my beer to smell like eggs, there are certain beers where I prefer just a whiff of sulfur on the nose. I have used 34/70 on several occasions in my Märzen, and it makes a damn good beer, but when I use 2633 it leaves a subtle sulfur note on the nose that takes it to the next level.

Regarding S-189, I have only used it once, using an accelerated lager fermentation schedule, and I wasn’t a fan of the results. It was kind of muddled, with some fusel alcohol notes. If I used it again, I’d be sure to stick to a traditional low & slow lager fermentation.

And yes, 34/70 finishes crisp enough for a pilsner, but WY2278 is even crisper. 2278 is the only yeast I’ll use for a hoppy lager like an IPL. Every other lager strain I’ve used tends to strip some late hop character (especially fruitier varietals), even 34/70.

Interesting comment on the 2278 in a Pils. I have used it in a Czech Pils, trying to do a PU clone, but that was a split batch that I blended back together, using the D and H strain, to do what they used to do. Now they just use the H strain from what I have read. I will split a batch of German Pils with 830 and 2278 and see which I like best.

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

I’ll be doing a vienna lager with the S-34/70 today after breakfast.

[brewinhard]

I’ll be doing a vienna lager with the S-34/70 today after breakfast.

Oh Steve, you’re gonna screw it up without the S-189!!!  ;D

[system]

@erockrph

I can’t refute that LODO could have something to do with it, as I have yet to incorporate that in the hot side. One other thing that comes to mind is that if the LODO brewers that get this character are using saurgut, maybe the yeast is somehow enhancing the lemony, Berliner Weisse character from the acid fermentation rather than producing this during fermentation.

I have also noticed the lack of sulfur production from dry lager strains. While I don’t want my beer to smell like eggs, there are certain beers where I prefer just a whiff of sulfur on the nose. I have used 34/70 on several occasions in my Märzen, and it makes a damn good beer, but when I use 2633 it leaves a subtle sulfur note on the nose that takes it to the next level.

Regarding S-189, I have only used it once, using an accelerated lager fermentation schedule, and I wasn’t a fan of the results. It was kind of muddled, with some fusel alcohol notes. If I used it again, I’d be sure to stick to a traditional low & slow lager fermentation.

And yes, 34/70 finishes crisp enough for a pilsner, but WY2278 is even crisper. 2278 is the only yeast I’ll use for a hoppy lager like an IPL. Every other lager strain I’ve used tends to strip some late hop character (especially fruitier varietals), even 34/70.

Interesting observation, regarding sauergut. Although my SG tastes more like orange juice than lemon juice, you may be on to something.

Glad to see someone else, seeing the same attributes to the dry yeasts as far as sulfur, and whatnot.

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

@brewinhard

I’ll be doing a vienna lager with the S-34/70 today after breakfast.

Oh Steve, you’re gonna screw it up without the S-189!!!  ;D

What?  :o
I went with the 34/70 to get a drier finish. S-189 goes into my next marzen.

[RAAFAELRAMIREZ (duelerx)]

Is S-189 a good candidate for a tropical stout?

[brewinhard]

Is S-189 a good candidate for a tropical stout?

Tropical Stouts are typically fermented warm(er) with a traditional lager yeast. Not sure how this strain would fare at warmer temps.

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

exBEERiment | Yeast Comparison: Saflager W-34/70 vs. Saflager S-189 In A...

[PORTERHAUS]

I seen the Brulosophy experiment this morning. I recently used 34/70 for the first time on my last lager. I plan on trying the S-189. So far I have been happier with Mangrove Jacks’s Bohemian Lager dry yeast. Its just a bit more to my liking and really performs and tastes closer to to Wyeast Bohemian Lager which I have used a lot.

[fchenette (Frankenbrew)]

My experience with both yeasts (same maibock recipe) is that that S-189 produces a lager that is a bit more malty. The other thing is that the one into which I pitched the S-189 had better head/foam. Not exactly scientific, that’s what I got.

[ynotbrusum]

And I can’t help but wonder if there are perceptible differences at a colder fermentation temperature.  The LODO process holds at 48F for the full fermentation and spunding.

I noted the lemon in 34/70 when fermenting at the lower end of the spectrum; maybe I was imagining, but it was reinforced when I had a friend try the beer (unknowing of anything about it) and unprompted, he said that it was a good beer, but the lemon he detected made him ask if I had dosed it with lemon.

[system]

@ynotbrusum

And I can’t help but wonder if there are perceptible differences at a colder fermentation temperature.  The LODO process holds at 48F for the full fermentation and spunding.

I noted the lemon in 34/70 when fermenting at the lower end of the spectrum; maybe I was imagining, but it was reinforced when I had a friend try the beer (unknowing of anything about it) and unprompted, he said that it was a good beer, but the lemon he detected made him ask if I had dosed it with lemon.

48, try 45

Yea 34/70 AND s189 hate life down there. Just look at the proper pitch rates( dry yeast) they want you to have for those temps! I was pitching 50 grams into a 5.5gal batch.

[brewinhard]

@ynotbrusum

And I can’t help but wonder if there are perceptible differences at a colder fermentation temperature.  The LODO process holds at 48F for the full fermentation and spunding.

I noted the lemon in 34/70 when fermenting at the lower end of the spectrum; maybe I was imagining, but it was reinforced when I had a friend try the beer (unknowing of anything about it) and unprompted, he said that it was a good beer, but the lemon he detected made him ask if I had dosed it with lemon.

48, try 45

Just look at the proper pitch rates( dry yeast) they want you to have for those temps! I was pitching 50 grams into a 5.5gal batch.

Jesus!  Really?  Rehydrated too?  And you still noticed off-flavors when using them?

[system]

@brewinhard

@ynotbrusum

And I can’t help but wonder if there are perceptible differences at a colder fermentation temperature.  The LODO process holds at 48F for the full fermentation and spunding.

I noted the lemon in 34/70 when fermenting at the lower end of the spectrum; maybe I was imagining, but it was reinforced when I had a friend try the beer (unknowing of anything about it) and unprompted, he said that it was a good beer, but the lemon he detected made him ask if I had dosed it with lemon.

48, try 45

Just look at the proper pitch rates( dry yeast) they want you to have for those temps! I was pitching 50 grams into a 5.5gal batch.

Jesus!  Really?  Rehydrated too?  And you still noticed off-flavors when using them?

Off flavors, lack of flavors, etc. I tried playing with pitch rates as well… My 2206 is just way easier ;D

[ynotbrusum]

@ynotbrusum

And I can’t help but wonder if there are perceptible differences at a colder fermentation temperature.  The LODO process holds at 48F for the full fermentation and spunding.

I noted the lemon in 34/70 when fermenting at the lower end of the spectrum; maybe I was imagining, but it was reinforced when I had a friend try the beer (unknowing of anything about it) and unprompted, he said that it was a good beer, but the lemon he detected made him ask if I had dosed it with lemon.

48, try 45

Yea 34/70 AND s189 hate life down there. Just look at the proper pitch rates( dry yeast) they want you to have for those temps! I was pitching 50 grams into a 5.5gal batch.

I could have sworn I read 48 F somewhere in your stuff.  Maybe it was for those unable to go to 45F…Well, we will see what I get from a currently fermenting 10 gallon batch of S-189 at 45 (it’s so cold in my garage that the carboy heater - aquarium type - can’t get it above that temperature).  this is the tough time of the year for me with lagers…I hate warming a cold environment when the rest of the year I strive for the opposite.  I should start a thread on the effects of heating fermenters of lager beer to get into the 46F range in a colder garage (I find that they alter the flavor to a more skunky tone, however slight).

[sdarji (Chino Brews)]

How did the brulosophy results on S-189 vs. W-34/70 not get posted in this discussion?

exBEERiment | Yeast Comparison: Saflager W-34/70 vs. Saflager S-189 In A...

Spoiler: out of 22 tasters in a blind triangle, a significant number were unable to tell the difference between 1.053 OG Vienna Lagers fermented with S-189 vs. W-34/70. Maybe the difference would have been significant in a high gravity lager. Who knows?

[majorvices]

@ynotbrusum

And I can’t help but wonder if there are perceptible differences at a colder fermentation temperature.  The LODO process holds at 48F for the full fermentation and spunding.

I noted the lemon in 34/70 when fermenting at the lower end of the spectrum; maybe I was imagining, but it was reinforced when I had a friend try the beer (unknowing of anything about it) and unprompted, he said that it was a good beer, but the lemon he detected made him ask if I had dosed it with lemon.

48, try 45

Yea 34/70 AND s189 hate life down there. Just look at the proper pitch rates( dry yeast) they want you to have for those temps! I was pitching 50 grams into a 5.5gal batch.

Totally and completely untrue. Totally and completely false. I have a hard time believing you have used these yeasts. I’m not going to go out so far as to say I like the 34/70 as well as the liquid equivalent but I know for a fact you can make great beer out of that strain and S-189.

[bayareabrewer]

I want to make a LODO lager with these yeast just to see if I can taste this mythical lemon flavor from these yeasts.

[system]

@bayareabrewer

I want to make a LODO lager with these yeast just to see if I can taste this mythical lemon flavor from these yeasts.

That’s the spirit!

[bayareabrewer]

@bayareabrewer

I want to make a LODO lager with these yeast just to see if I can taste this mythical lemon flavor from these yeasts.

That’s the spirit!

Or I could do it the easy way and just zest some lemon. Lemme weigh my options here, LODO or taking 5 seconds to zest a lemon.

yeah, think I’ll stick with the simpler, easy and most importantly proven method of getting lemon flavor.