W34/70 vs S-189

[system]

@bayareabrewer

@bayareabrewer

I want to make a LODO lager with these yeast just to see if I can taste this mythical lemon flavor from these yeasts.

That’s the spirit!

Or I could do it the easy way and just zest some lemon. Lemme weigh my options here, LODO or taking 5 seconds to zest a lemon.

yeah, think I’ll stick with the simpler, easy and most importantly proven method of getting lemon flavor.

Whatever works for you man. You sound like a man with a plan.

[denny]

How did the brulosophy results on S-189 vs. W-34/70 not get posted in this discussion?
http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/15/yeast-comparison-saflager-w-3470-vs-saflager-s-189-exbeeriment-results/

Spoiler: out of 22 tasters in a blind triangle, a significant number were unable to tell the difference between 1.053 OG Vienna Lagers fermented with S-189 vs. W-34/70. Maybe the difference would have been significant in a high gravity lager. Who knows?

I don’t think that’s too surprising.  There is far less variation among lager yeasts than ale yeasts.

[Philbrew]

My apologies for bringing this ancient thread back to the top, but I said I’d report when my try with S-189 was ready to drink.

A Maibock:  SG = 1.067,  FG = 1.014

42%  Weyermann Pils
31%  GW 2 row
19%  Vienna
6%  Cara Munich
1.5% Special Roast
30  IBUs

Wonderful malt aroma and flavor.  Initial malty sweetness is nicely balanced by the smooth hop bitterness and leads to a somewhat dry finish.  The Sterling hop flavor and aroma is there but you really have to look for it.  lovely orange/amber clarity and persistent white head.  Nice mouthfeel.  Seems to check all the boxes for a Maibock except maybe a little more caramel than ideal.

I will brew malt forward lagers again with S-189.  Maybe the next Maibock will swap out the Cara Munich for 10% Munich 20L.

[pinnah]

@ynotbrusum

I should start a thread on the effects of heating fermenters of lager beer to get into the 46F range in a colder garage (I find that they alter the flavor to a more skunky tone, however slight).

I had to fire up the wood stove in the shop the other day and move my fermenter a little closer.
ghetto ambient brewing.  hope I don’t get the skunk!

s189 schwartzbier btw

[denny]

@pinnah

@ynotbrusum

I should start a thread on the effects of heating fermenters of lager beer to get into the 46F range in a colder garage (I find that they alter the flavor to a more skunky tone, however slight).

I had to fire up the wood stove in the shop the other day and move my fermenter a little closer.
ghetto ambient brewing.  hope I don’t get the skunk!

s189 schwartzbier btw

Skunk is from light, not heat.

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

@Philbrew

My apologies for bringing this ancient thread back to the top, but I said I’d report when my try with S-189 was ready to drink.

A Maibock:  SG = 1.067,  FG = 1.014

42%  Weyermann Pils
31%  GW 2 row
19%  Vienna
6%  Cara Munich
1.5% Special Roast
30  IBUs

Wonderful malt aroma and flavor.  Initial malty sweetness is nicely balanced by the smooth hop bitterness and leads to a somewhat dry finish.  The Sterling hop flavor and aroma is there but you really have to look for it.  lovely orange/amber clarity and persistent white head.  Nice mouthfeel.  Seems to check all the boxes for a Maibock except maybe a little more caramel than ideal.

I will brew malt forward lagers again with S-189.  Maybe the next Maibock will swap out the Cara Munich for 10% Munich 20L.

Thanks for the update. I am brewing a malty brown lager on Friday and will be using S-189 for the first time. 34/70 has been my go to but reports that 189 is good for malty styles seemed like a good reason to try it.

[fredthecat]

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

[denny]

@fredthecat

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

Does the beer have diacetyl?  That’s how I decide.

[fredthecat]

@denny

@fredthecat

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

it’s going now. i don’t generally taste test my beers as theyre going. i don’t even have an auto-siphon actually.
Does the beer have diacetyl?  That’s how I decide.

[dmtaylor (Dave Taylor)]

@denny

@fredthecat

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

Does the beer have diacetyl?  That’s how I decide.

^^^This.  AND… if I recall correctly, the last time I used S-189 in the low 50s, I got no diacetyl anyway.  Very clean yeast.  Love it.

[denny]

@dmtaylor

@denny

@fredthecat

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

Does the beer have diacetyl?  That’s how I decide.

^^^This.  AND… if I recall correctly, the last time I used S-189 in the low 50s, I got no diacetyl anyway.  Very clean yeast.  Love it.

I have never gotten diacetyl form S-189 or Wy2206.  Very seldom from any yeast, actually.

[denny]

@fredthecat

@denny

@fredthecat

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

it’s going now. i don’t generally taste test my beers as theyre going. i don’t even have an auto-siphon actually.
Does the beer have diacetyl?  That’s how I decide.

I generally take a gravity reading toward the end of fermentation and taste it.  That’s when I decide.

[fredthecat]

@denny

@fredthecat

@denny

@fredthecat

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

it’s going now. i don’t generally taste test my beers as theyre going. i don’t even have an auto-siphon actually.
Does the beer have diacetyl?  That’s how I decide.

I generally take a gravity reading toward the end of fermentation and taste it.  That’s when I decide.

i got a turkey baster a while ago, but even that i try to not use unless i think there’s a problem. what do you use?

[ynotbrusum]

@denny

@pinnah

@ynotbrusum

I should start a thread on the effects of heating fermenters of lager beer to get into the 46F range in a colder garage (I find that they alter the flavor to a more skunky tone, however slight).

I had to fire up the wood stove in the shop the other day and move my fermenter a little closer.
ghetto ambient brewing.  hope I don’t get the skunk!

s189 schwartzbier btw

Skunk is from light, not heat.

Funny that this thread came up - I distinctly recall stating the foregoing back then, but I was incorrectly describing what I was perceiving - not skunk like Heineken, but rather sulfur - very low rotten eggs.  For what that is worth…

[Ellismr]

@denny

What about all the people who haven’t gotten lemon out of 34/70?

I use W 34/70 quite a bit in German Pilsner and Schwartzbier and I’ve never got lemon but I’m starting to wonder if the people that use dry yeast we’re not treating it correctly in terms of the whole process such as mash PHPH going to the fermenter Ph, yeast nutrient proper level of oxygenation and proper pitch rate there’s so many factors in there that I think if one of those is off or a combination of them maybe it does produce that but I’ve never got that.

We’ve seen things with other strains if you are under pitch and stress yeast you get different aroma or pheonlic characteristics

[BrewBama (Dwain)]

@Ellismr

@denny

What about all the people who haven’t gotten lemon out of 34/70?

I use W 34/70 quite a bit in German Pilsner and Schwartzbier and I’ve never got lemon but I’m starting to wonder if the people that use dry yeast we’re not treating it correctly in terms of the whole process such as mash PHPH going to the fermenter Ph, yeast nutrient proper level of oxygenation and proper pitch rate there’s so many factors in there that I think if one of those is off or a combination of them maybe it does produce that but I’ve never got that.

We’ve seen things with other strains if you are under pitch and stress yeast you get different aroma or pheonlic characteristics

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree

[denny]

@fredthecat

@denny

@fredthecat

@denny

@fredthecat

If you do a low and slow s-189 fermentation in the low 50s, should you do a diacetyl rest?

note: I don’t exactly have a place that is a nice low 60s for what would, i perceive, be a good temp for a diacetyl rest. only straight 70F+ indoors or in my garage where its a stable low 50s.

should i just let it sit for 6 weeks + with no diacetyl rest?

it’s going now. i don’t generally taste test my beers as theyre going. i don’t even have an auto-siphon actually.
Does the beer have diacetyl?  That’s how I decide.

I generally take a gravity reading toward the end of fermentation and taste it.  That’s when I decide.

i got a turkey baster a while ago, but even that i try to not use unless i think there’s a problem. what do you use?

Turkey baster when I ferment in buckets.  Why don’t you want to use it?

[denny]

@Ellismr

@denny

What about all the people who haven’t gotten lemon out of 34/70?

I use W 34/70 quite a bit in German Pilsner and Schwartzbier and I’ve never got lemon but I’m starting to wonder if the people that use dry yeast we’re not treating it correctly in terms of the whole process such as mash PHPH going to the fermenter Ph, yeast nutrient proper level of oxygenation and proper pitch rate there’s so many factors in there that I think if one of those is off or a combination of them maybe it does produce that but I’ve never got that.

We’ve seen things with other strains if you are under pitch and stress yeast you get different aroma or pheonlic characteristics

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I do nothing with dry yeast but pour it in.

[BrewBama (Dwain)]

I do the same. But the question is not how the dry yeast is pitched but how much, what it’s pitched into (wort composition , pH, etc) and what with (nutrients).

[denny]

@BrewBama

I do the same. But the question is not how the dry yeast is pitched but how much, what it’s pitched into (wort composition , pH, etc) and what with (nutrients).

Sometimes I do one pack, sometimes 2…doesn’t seem to matter in most of my lagers.  My attitude toward the rest of it is “it is what it is”.