i used to for my entire brewing history, but have been rehydrating for quite a while now, and i perceive better results overall. i wouldnt go back to direct addition again personally.
Denny, I gotta admit: I find it interesting that such a nonchalant attitude is taken to one of the four integral components of our hobby.
Especially given all the specialty maltsters encouraged, hop terroir discussion, water adjustments in a computer spreadsheet, attention to grain preparation, mash temp control thru pumps and computers, glycol fermentation control… and on and on.
I respect the pragmatic ‘fun’ aspect as your shtick. I even agree with it. None of this has to be as hard as some try to make it. It’s not rocket science.
…but fun doesn’t have to give way to disregard.
Checked all my Lallemand yeasts yesterday…every pack says sprinkle in. When I did rehydrate, I forget differwnt results than I do without. What do you perceive that you think is different?
It’s all driven by experience. I don’t nonchalantly disregard things. I try different ways and do what works best for me.
I can certainly understand and respect that. I have my own experiences to fall back on. …but new brewers may not and they could be looking to you for guidance which may result in unintended consequences.
A couple dollars or three is cheap insurance for a quick start, vigorous healthy ferment, complete attenuation, etc. especially after all the other attention to detail and investment.
It may be that the insurance is not required but that’s true of all insurance. …until you need it.
I advise new and experienced brewers based on the experiences I’ve had. If my experience contradicts conventional wisdom, why shouldn’t I pass it along? I tell people to try it both ways and decide for themselves, as I did.
FWIW, your point is the same one I got when I began advocating batch sparging 20 some years ago. I was told that I was driving newbies in a bad direction and that I had a responsibility to tell them differently. Not much different than the pushback Mark got from talking about the SNS method.
we know that instructions on liquid or dry yeast can be the best method or a decidedly inferior method just as easily…
i simply perceive better fermentations, less unwanted flavours, of course that could be based on other improvements i’ve made concurrently with starting to rehydrate yeast.
however, i do recall hearing in a podcast a very detailed description of how dried yeast sort of untangle themselves best in a low gravity wort or water and get ready to resume their job of eating sugars. i know this is perhaps considered “parroting” conventional wisdom, but it was a recent listen. if dumped directly into wort, i cant rememeber what the exact issue is, if they are malformed, more tired(?) or a higher percentage are dead or inactive, but it was not advised.
however, then we might consider the pitching rate of the packets… and if they are already well over 100%, say 150% or more of the necessary cell count and 25% are dead or inactive from direct pitch… then it doesnt matter.
anyway, my experience has been that it is not inconvenient for me to rehydrate and i perceive a better yeast character. so i will continue on with this.
would be happy to discuss any ones alternative views on this.
You’ve obviously tried different ways and made your decision. Your choice is as valid for you as mine is for me.
Actually, in this case I believe you’re perpetuating conventional wisdom that one pack a batch is a proper pitch (two for a lager). I am the one saying one pack in an Ale is rarely enough. Likewise, for two in a Lager.
We buy all this fancy equipment to ensure exact mash and fermentation temps, measure grain, hops, and water minerals but somehow when it comes to yeast, measurements go out the window.
If I recall correctly i’ve even read to cut a whirlflock tablet in half.
It doesn’t make sense to me. How does the amount a yeast mfr sells in a retail unit all of a sudden equate to a proper pitch regardless of other factors. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Just because i buy C60 by the pound doesn’t mean that’s the qty to use in a batch of beer. The same logic should apply to dry yeast.
Again, I do what I’ve found works for me. I tell others it works for me if they want to try it and see if it works for them.
It has nothing to do with cost. It’s simply pragmatism. If someone doesn’t want to try my methods that’s fine with me, but I won’t stop saying that they work for me.
I pitch less yeast than conventional wisdom based on real science AND personal experience AND discussions on forums like this. The real proof is in the personal experience of course. Dry yeast is pretty awesome stuff and doesn’t need to be babied. Relative to liquid yeast it is virtually indestructible and way more reliable after long term storage.
Like Denny says… don’t just take my word for it. Experiment on your own, then do what you feel you need to do.
Here’s just a small amount of science and discussion and experience:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27438.msg358328#msg358328
the sentence i wrote about assuming say one packet has 150% of the recommended cells needed was just thinking. just to kind of counterpoint potentially.
good point about assuming one packet is correct for the usual 5 or 6 gallons. lallemand has a calculator, but again this is trusting their opinion on the matter: Brewing Calculators - Lallemand Brewing
the by the lb sale of grains is also an issue. i would always do max of 1lb of crystal/roasted/etc to add to a base malt, without really thinking.
i do cut whirflocs in half and campden tabs into half, which is apparently too much of a dose, should be 1/3rds or something.
what keeps me from buying 500g sachets of dry yeast is that people and the manufacturer say they go bad quickly unless vacuum re-sealed again immediately after opening. any thoughts?
I have. …and I do. I did not like my experience with under pitching: slow start, slugging performance, didn’t finish well. I cringe when i hear folks talk about the two week fermentations that i used to experience.
Cheers!
I bought a brick of dry yeast. I keep it vacuum sealed, cut it open, measure out what I need, reseal it and put it back in the fridge. Works great.
I do agree with Dave in that dry yeast is fairly indestructible. I’ve never heard of anyone keeping a pack of liquid yeast on stand by just in case dry yeast fails.
yup, forgot to mention above that i get really consistent and short lag-phases when i rehydrate. as has been said by everyone several times “to each his own”, but again. i see no reason to risk a whole batches quality by potentially underpitching and by not rehydrating. very little extra time and money, and i believe that i see the results. had visible krausen covering the top only 12 hours after pitching 2 rehydrated packets. i used to dry pitch fermentis products many years ago and i’d be checking on my beer 36 hours later and just begin to see it starting up.
cool about the 500g packets. someone else i was talking to here was saying that dry yeast is the way of the future. crazy how we’re easily 20/25 years into homebrewing being able to be picked up without scrounging and searching all over for our stuff, and yeast is still such an unknown in so many regards.
Rehydrate vs sprinkle has to be the longest running debate in home brewing by far haha
The manufacturers now recommend pitching direct, no rehydration. Not much debate among them.
i disagree with the “now”. they waffle back and forth on it, and have at various times recommended both. fermentis has one PDF dated 2019 where they state rehydration is not necessary, but then state benefits of it on the same page. lallemand currently recommends rehydration.
when i go to lallemands website, they state that rehydrating does x process which is beneficial to yeast health. https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/products/brewing-yeast/
this is also interesting in that they suggest against direct pitching if you belief the wort will have a low Ph (ie. sour or ??) https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/bp/BEST-PRACTICES_REHYDRATION_DIGITAL.pdf
again, the next thing would be the viable cell count upon packaging of the dried yeast and how that plays out upon adding it to wort. because i absolutely concede that if the cell count is 150% of what is necessary for 20 litres of 1.045 wort, then if not rehydrating makes it say 10% less viable, it really doesn’t matter.
as stated already though, my personal findings and experiences, which were not scientifically discovered are that rehydrating makes better beer for a minimal effort (i don’t follow the instructions lallemand has to the letter ie. autoclaving, slowly lowering the wort from ~30C to wort temp etc)
I’ve done both with good results. I use liquid 95% if the time, although have tried a few of the new varieties, of which verdant is my favourite. I just sprinkled it, worked great.
It just seems to come up now and then and always goes round and round. Goes to show there’s more than one way of arriving at the same place in brewing. Which applies to most aspects of brewing.
I have talked to microbiologists at both Lallemand and Fermentis. They tell me there is no need to rehydrate. Websites obviously have not caught up. Do what your experience tells you to do.
Although Fermentis is comfortable with direct pitching, they recommend a specific procedure. From Fermentis - Yeast and fermentation solutions for beverages
"If the brewery is not equipped with a system designed for the rehydration step,
we highly recommend a direct pitch.
To do so we recommend using the necessary quantity in weight of ADY and to
put it into the fermentation vessel during the first part of the wort cooling step.
The temperature of cooling will be the same as the temperature used to start
fermentation. There is no need for aeration during this process.
Step 1
Start to fill your fermenter with hopped wort until the cone is filled
Step 2
Sprinkle dry yeast directly in the hopped wort
Step 3
Finish to fill the fermenter"
I also emailed Fermentis about dry pitching and was advised not to pitch on foam: “Sprinkling the yeast on the foam will leave some yeast outside of the liquid which is no good.”
By the way, this is a great discussion. Thanks to all who commented.