Water Question for IPAs and Mineral Additions

[nicosan1]

Planning to brew a Double IPA and was following Tasty McDole’s IPA Water Profile.  Ca-110ppm, Mg-18ppm, Na-17ppm, SO4-350ppm, Cl-50ppm

I plan to brew with Distilled Water and likely will just be all Rahr 2 row with a little bit of wheat malt and some dextrose.  I don’t seem to need any Acid Malt or Acid additions as I plan to use about 1.75 grams Gypsum per gallon about .1 grams CaCl per gallon, about .5 grams epsom salts per gallon and about .2 grams per gallon of canning salt.

Do these numbers look okay in your experience for a hoppy beer?  Looks to hit most of my numbers for CA, CL, SO4, Magnesium and sodium.  PH estimate is about 5.39

[Bob357]

I’d be inclined to acidify mash and boil to 5.2, or very close to that. It will help with crispness.

[nicosan1]

@Bob357

I’d be inclined to acidify mash and boil to 5.2, or very close to that. It will help with crispness.

Sounds good, I’ll add a touch of Phosphoric to the mash.

[hopfenundmalz]

Rahr 2-row will be about 0.3 pH lower than one would expect. With the Ca and acid additions you might end up below 5.2.

[nicosan1]

So you are saying, stay clear of the acid addition and just do the mineral additions I was planning?

[denny]

@nicosan1

So you are saying, stay clear of the acid addition and just do the mineral additions I was planning?

I think that’s what Jeff meant and it’s what I’d recommend also.

[nicosan1]

Thanks Jeff, Denny and Bob for your input!

[hopfenundmalz]

@nicosan1

Thanks Jeff, Denny and Bob for your input!

Your welcome.

You might want to run it in Brunwater with the color up around 8-10 lovobond for the Rahr. Then see where the minerals and acid take the pH to.

[mabrungard]

While a mash pH of 5.2 does make many styles crisp, I haven’t found that a pH that low is ideal for pale ales and IPA with their hoppiness and bittering. I find that bumping the pH up to around 5.4 works better for me in those styles.

[denny]

@mabrungard

While a mash pH of 5.2 does make many styles crisp, I haven’t found that a pH that low is ideal for pale ales and IPA with their hoppiness and bittering. I find that bumping the pH up to around 5.4 works better for me in those styles.

I agree with that.

[nicosan1]

@denny

@mabrungard

While a mash pH of 5.2 does make many styles crisp, I haven’t found that a pH that low is ideal for pale ales and IPA with their hoppiness and bittering. I find that bumping the pH up to around 5.4 works better for me in those styles.

I agree with that.

Since my expected PH is 5.39 and the Rahr 2 row might lower that to perhaps 5.36 should I buffer with a tiny bit of chalk or some dark malt like Carafa III, or just leave alone?

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@nicosan1

@denny

@mabrungard

While a mash pH of 5.2 does make many styles crisp, I haven’t found that a pH that low is ideal for pale ales and IPA with their hoppiness and bittering. I find that bumping the pH up to around 5.4 works better for me in those styles.

I agree with that.

Since my expected PH is 5.39 and the Rahr 2 row might lower that to perhaps 5.36 should I buffer with a tiny bit of chalk or some dark malt like Carafa III, or just leave alone?

I’d go as is. It’ll be fine. Under normal circumstances, chalk is next to worthless in terms of adjusting pH.

[nicosan1]

Sounds good, thanks!

[erockrph]

A) I agree with the pH target close to 5.4 for Pale Ales and IPA’s. 5.2 is a good target for lagers and Belgians, but I think it might muddy things a bit for hoppy ales.

B) Tasty knows IPA’s, so it is worth it to try his water as is.

C) That said, after trying higher sulfate levels, I’ve found that my own taste is for much lower levels in my IPA’s. I don’t go over 200ppm any more, and typically use 125-150ppm. Like I said, you should absolutely try Tasty’s water as-is. But if you find the beer to be too minerally for your tastes, then you my want to try something like 150ppm in a future batch for comparison.

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

I like pretty dry, snappy IPAs these days. I go with a mash pH of 5.3, about 225 ppm SO4 and a half pound of sugar to promote higher attenuation.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

I brewed quite a few APAs and IPAs with the Tasty/Pale Ale profile and have backed off, too. I’ve been using around 150ppm SO4 lately and liking it. I still end up fairly dry since I use very little crystal and finish around 1.010.

[zwiller]

All of the suggestions are good and work but there is no substitute for trying various methods.  When debating on these sort of things, I suggest you identify a commercial example that is similar to what you are trying to and then we could offer better advice.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@zwiller

All of the suggestions are good and work but there is no substitute for trying various methods.  When debating on these sort of things, I suggest you identify a commercial example that is similar to what you are trying to and then we could offer better advice.

Totally agree.

[yso191]

I find myself wondering the role hop choice makes in this discussion of pH in IPA’s.  In other words take your typical juicy (I use that descriptor for Denny’s benefit) NE IPA compared to a PNW dank, piney, citrusy IPA.  I would imagine pH would affect these differently.

Does anyone have any experience with this?  By ‘this’ I specifically mean changing pH to match hop character.

[zwiller]

Yep, for danky go higher 5.4 for juicy go lower 5.2.  “It has been shown that this solubility increases with pH (see Figure 4) [Briggs, 2004] which is why the bitterness extraction from hops is greater at a higher boil pH. Many brewers, however, have reported that the quality of the bitterness extracted at high boil pH is perceived as being harsher compared to bitterness gained from a boil at a lower pH.” http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_pH_affects_brewing

Also, the sparge/pre boil pH are equally important…  Mash pH is not set and forget.  My personal approach is to acidify sparge liquor to same of mash.