When Should I Call It?

[davidgzach]

Made a 1G starter yesterday and pitched a 2/4/2014 2007 smack pack at around 2:00PM.  There is zero activity on the stir plate.  I should see at least a few bubbles by now.  Should I call it and pitch the 860 and if not, when?  I’m close…

Dave

[gmac]

I’d give it at least 24, maybe 36 hours before I gave up. I have had slow starters but never one that didn’t start eventually. To be honest, I would probably let it ride even longer. Check the gravity after a couple days. I’ve had lager starters that never appeared to get going but the gravity dropped and they worked.

[davidgzach]

@gmac

I’d give it at least 24, maybe 36 hours before I gave up. I have had slow starters but never one that didn’t start eventually. To be honest, I would probably let it ride even longer. Check the gravity after a couple days. I’ve had lager starters that never appeared to get going but the gravity dropped and they worked.

GMAC-On a stir plate and in an erlenmeyer?

[reverseapachemaster]

Lager yeast are finicky. I wouldn’t give up on it so quickly.

[davidgzach]

I just realized that this is the first starter I’ve made with new yeast in over a year.  I’ve been using washed slurry for a while which makes sense that it would take off that much quicker.  I’ll RDWHAHB and give it another 24 hours.

Dave

[gmac]

@davidgzach

@gmac

I’d give it at least 24, maybe 36 hours before I gave up. I have had slow starters but never one that didn’t start eventually. To be honest, I would probably let it ride even longer. Check the gravity after a couple days. I’ve had lager starters that never appeared to get going but the gravity dropped and they worked.

GMAC-On a stir plate and in an erlenmeyer?

Yes, I posted a similar question recently and mine was on a stir plate in a 2 L erlynmeyer. I never actually saw bubbles, krausen or any other evidence of fermentation but when I crashed it and decanted I tasted the beer and it was most definitely beer, not wort anymore. Dry and oxidized without a hint of sugar. I measured the gravity and it was around 1.010. Based on what I could see I would have said it was dead but it just worked slow and didn’t show any signs of life. I actually think the stir plate stirs the CO2 out of solution and so if it is working slow we never see enough action because its getting scrubbed out. Think about how a wine de-gasser works. Stir bar would do just the same. Might actually see more life if it was just sitting still.

Are you using an airlock?  I would assume not because you want available oxygen. I was using foil. Had I placed an airlock on, I am sure I would have seen slow. Bubbling but that would defeat the purpose of a stir plate.

[davidgzach]

^^^^Very interesting.  I almost always see some bubbles, get a krausen ring and the wort gets cloudy as the yeast multiply.  But I also make 4L starters for 10G of lager.  That would definitely make a difference.

EDIT: No airlock, foil.

[dkfick]

I generally don’t get a krausen in my starters (though I so usually see some fine co2 at the top edges when I look really hard).  I tend to use an aquarium pump on my starters… So the pump pumps air (through a filter) and directly onto the surface of my starter (which is on a stirplate).

[dak0415]

@dkfick

I generally don’t get a krausen in my starters (though I so usually see some fine co2 at the top edges when I look really hard).  I tend to use an aquarium pump on my starters… So the pump pumps air (through a filter) and directly onto the surface of my starter (which is on a stirplate).

I’ve been wanting to try that!  Do you use a some kind of cap on the flask?  Carboy caps fit 2L to 6L flasks.

Dave

[dkfick]

@dak0415

@dkfick

I generally don’t get a krausen in my starters (though I so usually see some fine co2 at the top edges when I look really hard).  I tend to use an aquarium pump on my starters… So the pump pumps air (through a filter) and directly onto the surface of my starter (which is on a stirplate).

I’ve been wanting to try that!  Do you use a some kind of cap on the flask?  Carboy caps fit 2L to 6L flasks.

Dave

I have a cork bung with 2 holes in it.  One hole the tube from the pump goes in.  On the other hole I have an air filter jammed in (though I don’t think it’s necessary as there is negative pressure in the flask the whole time due to the pump pumping air into it)

[morticaixavier]

@dkfick

@dak0415

@dkfick

I generally don’t get a krausen in my starters (though I so usually see some fine co2 at the top edges when I look really hard).  I tend to use an aquarium pump on my starters… So the pump pumps air (through a filter) and directly onto the surface of my starter (which is on a stirplate).

I’ve been wanting to try that!  Do you use a some kind of cap on the flask?  Carboy caps fit 2L to 6L flasks.

Dave

I have a cork bung with 2 holes in it.  One hole the tube from the pump goes in.  On the other hole I have an air filter jammed in (though I don’t think it’s necessary as there is negative pressure in the flask the whole time due to the pump pumping air into it)

positive pressure neh?

[davidgzach]

@dkfick

I generally don’t get a krausen in my starters (though I so usually see some fine co2 at the top edges when I look really hard).  I tend to use an aquarium pump on my starters… So the pump pumps air (through a filter) and directly onto the surface of my starter (which is on a stirplate).

Do you see a big difference from just using foil?

[erockrph]

@reverseapachemaster

Lager yeast are finicky. I wouldn’t give up on it so quickly.

+1

[dkfick]

@davidgzach

@dkfick

I generally don’t get a krausen in my starters (though I so usually see some fine co2 at the top edges when I look really hard).  I tend to use an aquarium pump on my starters… So the pump pumps air (through a filter) and directly onto the surface of my starter (which is on a stirplate).

Do you see a big difference from just using foil?

Not a huge difference.  I feel like I get a healthier fermentation with my lagers and big beers though.  The theory is the yeast cells with have better sterol reserves and thus be more able to cope with the harsher environments.  It could all be in my head but I think it helps.  I had the pump already sitting aroudn from when I used to use it to aerate my wort.  So I figured why not.

[davidgzach]

Well, I gave it 30 hours and then pitched the 860 which took off in 6 hours and is now done.  You were all wrong… :o ;D

Dave

[erockrph]

@davidgzach

Well, I gave it 30 hours and then pitched the 860 which took off in 6 hours and is now done.  You were all wrong… :o ;D

Dave

I still say you probably just didn’t give it long enough. I pitched a Smack Pack of WY2000 dated early Feb around 8pm on Thursday into a 2.5 L starter. Saturday AM (T+36:00 hours) it still didn’t look like anything was going on when I shook it up, but I could start to smell a little bit of fermentation character. When I got home Saturday night (T+48:00 hours) it was chugging along and foamed up heavily when I swirled it up.

I think that A) lagers don’t tend to be vigorous fermenters and B) starters tend to be larger so the initial lag phase takes longer before you start to see visible signs of fermentation.

[davidgzach]

Could very well be Eric.  I just ran out of patience.  Should be an interesting beer.  2007 and 860 if the 2007 was still alive that is…

Dave