Between WLP001 and WLP007, which will produce a drier beer?
Going with a higher gravity beer, 1.080+. Mash somewhere in the 150 ballpark for 60-90 minutes.
ITs subjective. Mash time and temp? Wort OG? Grain bill?
I’ve used them both a lot, not sure there is a difference in attenuation based on yeast alone.
They both ferment pretty dry. If you want it to be really dry, mash at 148 F for 90 minutes, that will help.
yup and if you want really dry, add 10% table sugar
and if you want it really really dry, spill some on a t-shirt and toss is in the clothes dryer on high…
ba dum, ching!
no but seriously
+1 for mashing low and for an even dryer beer add an extremely fermentable sugar like table sugar or dextrose. I like to add mine right into the fermenter so the yeast eat all the harder to ferment malt sugars first then finish up their meal on the simple to ferment sugars.
I will sometimes feed in the fermenter for an extremely high gravity brew but generally speaking I put sugar in the boil. no reason not to and less chance of forgetting to do it that way. I’ve never seen a beer not finish because sugar was added to the boil instead of the fermenter
Co-incidentally I did almost forget to do that to my last brew using corn sugar in the recipe
Actually, I do not want to dry it out. I have access to fresh WLP001 from a local Las Vegas brewery and would like to use it instead of buying WLP007.
This is for a Double Bastard clone with an OG of 1.104 (90% 2-row / 10% Special-B), mashed at 150F, and 5 ounces of Chinook. I plan on oaking it with a bourbon oak.
Double Bastard is certainly not dry.
I thought that WLP007 being a ‘dry’ yeast would dry it out further than 001.
I believe the “dry” in the name of WLP007 is to differentiate it from WLP002.
001 Attenuation rate is 73-80%
007 is 70-80%
Id say they are pretty similar. Also your mash temp will play a big part in how dry the beer ends up.
In my experience, they both average about 77-78%. That’s at a mash temperature of about 150 F. So, if you want less attenuation, just mash higher at like 153-154 F. No problem.
WLP001 (a.k.a. Siebel Bry 96) is definitely more attenuative than WLP007 (a.k.a. Whitbread “B”) given most wort compositions. If you are looking for a less attenuative relatively clean yeast and are not opposed to using dry yeast, Lallemand Bry 97 produces a nice beer. You just need to pitch two packets per 5 gallons if you want a start time that is measured in hours, not days.
I’ve gotten very good attenuation with both strains, but never deliberately measured attenuation in the same grist/mash temp combo in both strains. I did use 007/1098 in a Stone AB type beer last winter and got a good bit better attenuation than intended. I like both strains a lot.
So given the same brewing parameters, WLP001 would dry the beer out further than 007?
Others’ mileage may vary, but I have seen attenuation up to 80% with WLP007. All things being equal… I think they’ll attenuate pretty much equal, based on my own experience. YMMV
+1. I don’t doubt S.Cerevisiae’s post that 001 is more attenuative. In practice, I’ve found the two to be pretty comparable. The take away IMO is that, mashed @ 148F for 90 minutes, either strain is going to attenuate very well (ie., give you a drier beer). Mash higher - 150 - 155F - for a beer with comparatively more malty body and less dryness.
+1. I’ve most likely used WY1007 more than anyone on this forum, seeing as I have used is once or twice a week for the last 4 years. Probably used 1056 half as much. There’s not much a difference in attenuation. 1056 might attenuate a higher gravity beer better than wy1007. That’s a hunch I have but aside from a few batches I don’t have much experience with wy1007 at higher gravities (though lots of experience with 1056).
Let’s start with a very basic overview of organic chemistry. All sugars belong to a class of substances known as carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are a combination of carbon and water (hydrated carbon). The simple sugars found in wort are multiples of CH2O. Simple sugars are known as monosaccharides. The simple sugars found in wort are primarily glucose and to a lesser extent fructose and galactose (an “ose” is a sugar). These sugars are classified as hexoses because they contain six carbon atoms. The chemical formula for all three sugars is C6H12O6. They only differ in form.
The sugars found in wort that are more complex than the hexoses are known as disaccharides and trisaccharides. A disaccharide is a sugar that contains two monosaccharide molecules bound by what is known as a glycosidic bond. A trisaccharide is a sugar that contains three monosaccharide molecules bound by two glycosidic bonds.
Glycosidic bonds result in the loss of one H2O molecule per bond. For example, maltose is a disaccharide that consists of two glucose molecules bound via a glycosidic bond. While the chemical formula for glucose is C6H12O6, the chemical formula for maltose is not C12H24O12 (2 x C6H12O6). It is C12H22O11. That’s because we loose an H2O molecule when we combine two glucose molecules to form maltose.
In order for a yeast cell to use a disaccharide or a trisaccharide, these sugars must undergo an important process known as hydrolysis. That word should look familiar to anyone who has dealt with a primary fermentation bogeyman; namely, autolysis. Hydrolysis is the combination of “hydro” (water) and “lysis” (break apart). Hence, hydrolysis is the breaking apart of sugar via the addition of water. We need to add one water molecule per glycosidic bond in order to release the simple sugar molecules.
C12H22O11 + H2O → C6H12O6 + C6H12O6
To take a step backwards, mashing is the simple name for a biochemical process known as hydrolysis of starch. Like hydrolysis of starch, hydrolysis of sugar requires enzymes. Enzymes serve as hydrolysis catalysts. Catalysts are substances that speed up chemical reactions. Yeast cells produce the enzymes necessary to hydrolyze disaccharides and trisaccharides into monosaccharides.
Now, here’s where yeast genetics come into play. Enzymes are proteins. Proteins are made up of amino acids. Genes are responsible for encoding amino acids into enzymes. Different yeast strains encode the enzymes that catalyze the hydrolysis of complex sugars into simple sugars to different degrees. Some yeast stains do not encode the enzymes necessary to hydrolyze certain sugars. For example, the Windsor yeast strain cannot break down the trisaccharide maltotriose (C18H32O16), which is composed of three glucose molecules bound by two glycosidic bonds. That’s why it leaves a higher than normal terminal gravity.
By wort composition, I do not mean the composition of the grist that we used to make a batch of wort. I mean the proportions of monosaccharides, disaccharides, trisaccharides, and dextrins in the wort.
According to Fix (Principles of Brewing Science), mashes produced at 60C (140F) and 70C (158F) have the following compositions:
60C/140F Wort
Monosaccharide – 10%
Disaccharide – 61%
Trisaccharide – 9%
Dextrin – 20%
70C/158F Wort
Monosaccharide – 8%
Disaccharide – 41%
Trisaccharide – 16%
Dextrin – 35%
As one can clearly see, not only does the percentage of dextrins in wort rise with respect to mashing temperature, the percentage of trisaccharides rises as well. To a great extent, the ability to ferment the trisaccharide maltotriose determines the relative attenuation of any given yeast strain for a specific wort composition. Bry 96 (a.k.a. “Chico,” 1056, WLP001, US-05, or simply Ballantine) is very good at breaking maltotriose down into glucose. Pretty much all that is left after it has completed fermentation is dextrin and a small amount of melibiose.