I too will give Diamond a try in the near future. But if it comes out cleaner than 34/70, that won’t necessarily be a good thing to my palate. Still, I can’t rule it out until I try it…
My first taste ever of S-23 today… and I think it’s pretty good. I don’t get any weird fruitiness. Maybe it helps that I fermented at about 68 F. Just a faint whiff of sulfur (normal, and it’s still very young yet, primary just finished), and other than that… well so far I can see myself experimenting with this one some more in future, despite people’s advice to the contrary. YMMV. And maybe my opinion will change after it’s actually carbonated and chilled, this was a warm gravity sample.
I never got the fruitiness from S-23 either but maybe I’m not sensitive to it. I have used S-23 for Festbier and Marzen and the results where good. My favorite dry yeasts include Diamond Lager, S-189, 34/70.
I didn’t hate S-23 at the time I just didn;t love it and the liquid strains were superior. Then S-189 became available and 30/74 so I never touched it again.
It’s supposed to be clean. Can’t think of many lager yeasts that aren’t.
“Clean” should not mean completely devoid of character, which 34/70 is to my palate.
That’s what it means to me. Gets out of the way of the other ingredients.
now thats interesting. i really want to try it just to tick it off. its probably the most hated yeast AFAIK. can’t think of anyone who holds it up, but many serious detractors.
is it actually pastorianus?
That sounds promising.
It is genetically very closely related to… Wyeast 2001 Urquell. Based on my actual experience now, I can see how that’s true. However unlike S-189 and WLP940, I’ve not experienced any diacetyl with this one at all, at least not fermented warm at 68 F.
My definition of “clean” means the final beer does not contain tastable unwanted metabolites (diacetyl, sulfur, etc). It does not mean the yeast is completely flavorless and has zero character. That said, most brewers probably go by your definition, fair enough.
Last time I used 34/70 I fermented around 65°. Turned out great. You might try that if you want to coax more character out of it.
Also inspired by this thread I grabbed some diamond for my next pils. We’ll see how it turns out, it’ll be a little while before I brew that one.
just to clarify, you started it at low 60s or 65 and kept it there the whole time? i always hear about 34/70 or other lagers at these temps and people say it works out fine.
Yeah it was in the low to mid 60s the whole time. I had always fermented it lower in the past but I don’t think I could tell a difference in the finished beer and it had a way better fermentation (a lot faster, no diacetyl, acetaldehyde, etc.)
It made a good Kellerbier when it was young but it crisped up after lagering nicely. I don’t think I would use that one at low temps again
I’ve got a pale Mexican lager finishing up almost exactly like your ferm schedule. First time doing it warm. Sample seemed to be good. Finished in about 7 days which was nice too.
I am finally able to taste my split batch with S-23 vs. S-189 side by side (both fermented warm 67-68 F)…
Indeed, S-23 has a distinct apple ester that I don’t like. Not acetaldehyde, but actual red-apple ester. It’s distracting. But otherwise a nice beer.
S-189… man that is a great beer. No flaws. Enough said.
Cheers all.
My S-23 beer turned out so weird I sent some to Palmer to check out. He said it tasted like a passion fruit wine cooler.
Yeah, I think I get a sort of pineapple or tutti-frooty punch thing from it as well. Not as clean as I’d originally hoped. It’s an okay beer, but… I won’t use it much in future. Or maybe I’ll try it in a cider! I bet that will be a good use for it this fall so it doesn’t go to waste – I only used like 1/4 packet for a 1-gallon batch.
Chumley once used it in a batch of BVIP just to tweak me. It was a great beer.
Had the same issue with S-23 when fermented ~55 F, pitched 2 packs. The beers I’ve made with 34/70 have been lackluster, both fermented warm or cold. I’ve really enjoyed Bayern lager, it seems crisper and ferments really well.