Maybe this is old hat to everybody, but it was new to me. Just thought I’d pass this along, although the final product isn’t in kegs yet…
I’d read in a few spots - Tasty and I think our own Mark (S. Cerevisae) do this (I think) about getting your yeast good and ready on brew day by pitching the yeast into a some of your newly made wort and letting it get to high krausen and then pitching into the main wort.
I tested this out with a recent pils - grew up the first step in a 2.75L wort in a 5L stirred flask, crashed a few days prior to brewday and then decanted, running 4.5L of fresh main batch wort onto the yeast cake in the flask and placing it in my fermenation fridge alongside the closed up conical. once it reached high krausen (about 6-8 hours later), I aerated and pitched into the main wort.
When I awoke the next morning fermentation was underway - appeared to be strong and after tasting a gravity sample last night, the fermenation appears to be flawless - hoping for a point or two more but it does appear to be winding down. Very clean even at this stage.
I think I like this method - it saved me from having to do a second step on a lager starter, and it kickstarted the main fermentation off.
Sort of similar to what i learned SN does (i just visited the MR facility on the Beer Geek Tour) - they have a 200bbl brewhouse, yet use 800bbl fermentors, so they will brew 1 batch and pitch yeast, get it going and then brew 3 more successive batches pitching on top of the already fermenting wort.
Glad to hear you’re having good results with this. I have been using the “shaken, not stirred” method and pitching at high krausen with good results, but I’d still prefer not to have 20% or more of my lagers made from DME. I have considered doing something similar to what you’ve been doing and making my starter from some wort from the batch I’m brewing, then pitching it in the morning once the main batch has cooled to pitching temp.
I’ve used this “self-starter” method for my last few batches and I love it. No more DME, no more pre-brewday stove work, and fermentations have been fast and flawless.
I recommend you guys try it once and see what you think.
After hearing SN’s process which is vaguely similar, I became more intrigued and confident in this method.
for an ale it would be possible to work the ratio (size, number of vials, etc) to be able to keep it to one starter on that day, which if you’re brewing spontaneously is cool.
of course the starter wort is bigger than optimal but that’s a trade off i guess.
My 6 gallon ale/hybrid batches all got 1L “indigenous wort” starters with 10 seconds of oxygen. And yes, being able to brew spontaneously is a big plus!
No I think you missed it - you are using part of the main wort. If you are brewing a 5.5 gal batch, run .5 gal into your starter flask, the remaining 5 gal into your fermentor and close up the fermentor. Once the starter is at high krausen - add the whole thing to the fermentor.
Yep, exactly - it is part of the original recipe! Nothing extra - I brew as usual, chill and transfer to the fermenter. Then I “borrow” 1L of that chilled wort, hit it with O2 and add yeast. A few hours later I pour it all back at high krausen.
Depends on the strain of course, but usually 6 or 7 hours? I’ve recently used 2565, 3711 and 1968. Even if it’s not at its peak, if I see that it’s active I’m comfortable pitching.
Basically my day is now brew, make the starter, clean, play with the kids, eat dinner, watch TV, pitch the starter, go to bed. It’s nice.
Sounds like drauflassen. In fact, you will probably get more yeast growth if you use a lot more of the wort for the first step. My last pils I was short on yeast, so I pitched it into only 5 gallons (half the batch), then siphoned the other 5 gallons into the fermenter 24 hours later. Seemed to produce excellent results for what was about half the yeast “needed” (for 1.5 m cells/ml/Plato).
Sierra Nevada and other large breweries use the drauflassen method. Paul, did they mention they have some 1600 barrel fermenters that they use for lagers?
I have done the run off of some of the chilled wort on ales to wake up the starter. Got that from my friend Bob in the club years back. Don’t always do it, but it does get the fermentation going strong.
For lagers I have sometimes waited to pitch in the conical, as I let the tub settle then dump out of the bottom valve then pitch the yeast. I have run some fresh wort into the starter to get things going before the pitch. Not worried about a late pitch, as the wort was chilled to 45F.
Maybe this is a silly question but would there be any value/difference in taking some of the wort early on in the boil that doesn’t have hops yet and is at a lower gravity to make this “native starter”?
I was thinking along similar lines. Shouldn’t starter wort be within a certain gravity range for optimum conditions (this could also be achieved by diluting to a target gravity)?
I ended up using this method on a pale ale I made this weekend. I took out about 1 L of wort after it had been boiling for 10 min. I First wort hopped this batch so that liter had some hop material in it. Put it in the fridge for a few hours, pitched a vial of yeast into it once it hit room temp, shook the hell out of the mixture in a 1 gallon jug and let it sit for ~8 hours and then pitched into the then cool wort. I tried to keep the hop material out of the native starter but some found its way in. Didn’t matter - the batch took off like gangbusters within 4 hours at 64F. I’m sold.