American Barleywine Hops

[rodwha]

Working up an American barleywine recipe and contemplating what hop(s) to use and how I’d like to use them. It seems an aroma/dry hop addition is about pointless as by the time the first one is cracked open in 9-12 months that will have likely faded away.

So I’m considering a flavor addition coupled with a whirlpool (unless it’s shown one has better staying power for the duration). I don’t want citrusy or fruity. Initially I thought I’d want something along the lines of Santiam, Perle, or Palisade, but now I’m wondering if something else like Bravo or Columbus would be better.

I had also initially figured I’d use 1/2 oz of Warrior as a first wort hop addition, but I’m not so sure that would give it enough of the hop bitterness the style seems to demand, though the few commercial versions I’ve had I wouldn’t exactly call all that bitter per se.

So what hops would you use and when would you use them yourself?

[deadwolfbones]

Sierra Nevada uses Chinook, Cascade, and Centennial in their Bigfoot. Seems like a good place to start for a classic American take on the style.

Home | Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. Start Your Adventure.

[Pope_of_Dope]

I haven’t brewed one. But if I did I would use a s*** ton of Magnum to bitter and then a couple of oz’s (for 5.5 gal)
of Northern Brewer or Sovereign just before flame out.

• if it’s a necessity to use only American hops, which I really don’t understand why but to each his own, then I would do a single hop Jarrylo. Probably wasted on the bittering end of things, Warrior would suffice just as well for bittering, but still, I’d stick with just this one. And like you said, I wouldn’t bother dry hopping.

[denny]

@Pope_of_Dope

I haven’t brewed one. But if I did I would use a s*** ton of Magnum to bitter and then a couple of oz’s (for 5.5 gal)
of Northern Brewer or Sovereign just before flame out.

• if it’s a necessity to use only American hops, which I really don’t understand why but to each his own, then I would do a single hop Jarrylo. Probably wasted on the bittering end of things, Warrior would suffice just as well for bittering, but still, I’d stick with just this one. And like you said, I wouldn’t bother dry hopping.

I used to bitter BW with Magnum, but found I preferred the results with Chinook.

[rodwha]

@denny

@Pope_of_Dope

I haven’t brewed one. But if I did I would use a s*** ton of Magnum to bitter and then a couple of oz’s (for 5.5 gal)
of Northern Brewer or Sovereign just before flame out.

• if it’s a necessity to use only American hops, which I really don’t understand why but to each his own, then I would do a single hop Jarrylo. Probably wasted on the bittering end of things, Warrior would suffice just as well for bittering, but still, I’d stick with just this one. And like you said, I wouldn’t bother dry hopping.

I used to bitter BW with Magnum, but found I preferred the results with Chinook.

What did you find better about Magnum? And I assume you mean across the board with higher IBU beers, right?

[denny]

@rodwha

@denny

@Pope_of_Dope

I haven’t brewed one. But if I did I would use a s*** ton of Magnum to bitter and then a couple of oz’s (for 5.5 gal)
of Northern Brewer or Sovereign just before flame out.

• if it’s a necessity to use only American hops, which I really don’t understand why but to each his own, then I would do a single hop Jarrylo. Probably wasted on the bittering end of things, Warrior would suffice just as well for bittering, but still, I’d stick with just this one. And like you said, I wouldn’t bother dry hopping.

I used to bitter BW with Magnum, but found I preferred the results with Chinook.

What did you find better about Magnum? And I assume you mean across the board with higher IBU beers, right?

No, other way around…I generally don’t care for Magnum for high IBU beers.  I want a slap, not a gentle tickle!

[rodwha]

@denny

@rodwha

@denny

@Pope_of_Dope

I haven’t brewed one. But if I did I would use a s*** ton of Magnum to bitter and then a couple of oz’s (for 5.5 gal)
of Northern Brewer or Sovereign just before flame out.

• if it’s a necessity to use only American hops, which I really don’t understand why but to each his own, then I would do a single hop Jarrylo. Probably wasted on the bittering end of things, Warrior would suffice just as well for bittering, but still, I’d stick with just this one. And like you said, I wouldn’t bother dry hopping.

I used to bitter BW with Magnum, but found I preferred the results with Chinook.

What did you find better about Magnum? And I assume you mean across the board with higher IBU beers, right?

No, other way around…I generally don’t care for Magnum for high IBU beers.  I want a slap, not a gentle tickle!

So you are after a sharper bitterness? Hmmm… wondering if that might be more appropriate here.

Anyone try an all Chinook barleywine? I was helped with trying to make an Arrogant Bastard clone using nothing but it, which didn’t come out all that similar. Been many, many moons since then so I don’t recall what I thought.

Looking back I see my bittering was at 90 mins and I felt the hop flavors weren’t strong enough.

[denny]

@rodwha

So you are after a sharper bitterness? Hmmm… wondering if that might be more appropriate here.

Anyone try an all Chinook barleywine? I was helped with trying to make an Arrogant Bastard clone using nothing but it, which didn’t come out all that similar. Been many, many moons since then so I don’t recall what I thought.

Looking back I see my bittering was at 90 mins and I felt the hop flavors weren’t strong enough.

Yep.  If it’s supposed to have a firm bitterness, that’s what I want and I use Chinook.  Not only BW, but IPA also.  Chinook also makes a killer finishing hop.  I tried some MI grown Chinook that was outstanding for finishing.  Remember, terroir matters!

[rodwha]

@denny

@rodwha

So you are after a sharper bitterness? Hmmm… wondering if that might be more appropriate here.

Anyone try an all Chinook barleywine? I was helped with trying to make an Arrogant Bastard clone using nothing but it, which didn’t come out all that similar. Been many, many moons since then so I don’t recall what I thought.

Looking back I see my bittering was at 90 mins and I felt the hop flavors weren’t strong enough.

Yep.  If it’s supposed to have a firm bitterness, that’s what I want and I use Chinook.  Not only BW, but IPA also.  Chinook also makes a killer finishing hop.  I tried some MI grown Chinook that was outstanding for finishing.  Remember, terroir matters!

Think I’ll run with your suggestion and try all Chinook.

I haven’t seen anyone speak on time additions. I read that people generally seem to start their chiller and get the temp down before doing a whirlpool. I haven’t done this. As my pot only handles about 7 gals topped up I can’t deal with the water to mash more than about 12 lbs of grains and get a good sparge so anything heavier I use LME at flame out, which drops the temp a bit, as does dropping the chiller in to sanitize it. Figuring this gets me somewhere to 185* or less, which from what I recall was said to be a more flavor-like addition with a whirlpool around 155* was more of an aroma addition.

I also haven’t seen anyone speak on the staying power of the hop flavor. For something that will sit for a long time would a boil addition be better than a whirlpool? Otherwise figure I’ll do both.

[denny]

@rodwha

Think I’ll run with your suggestion and try all Chinook.

I haven’t seen anyone speak on time additions. I read that people generally seem to start their chiller and get the temp down before doing a whirlpool. I haven’t done this. As my pot only handles about 7 gals topped up I can’t deal with the water to mash more than about 12 lbs of grains and get a good sparge so anything heavier I use LME at flame out, which drops the temp a bit, as does dropping the chiller in to sanitize it. Figuring this gets me somewhere to 185* or less, which from what I recall was said to be a more flavor-like addition with a whirlpool around 155* was more of an aroma addition.

I also haven’t seen anyone speak on the staying power of the hop flavor. For something that will sit for a long time would a boil addition be better than a whirlpool? Otherwise figure I’ll do both.

I accidentally dropped the temp too much once and ended up adding whirlpool hops at 120. I loved it so much that’s what I do now.  But truthfully, I’ve pretty much stopped doing whirlpool hops in favor of dry hopping.  For flavor I do a 5-10 min. addition.  But if you age it 5 years, you’re gonna be way down on hop f;avor and aroma no matter what you do.

[rodwha]

@denny

@rodwha

Think I’ll run with your suggestion and try all Chinook.

I haven’t seen anyone speak on time additions. I read that people generally seem to start their chiller and get the temp down before doing a whirlpool. I haven’t done this. As my pot only handles about 7 gals topped up I can’t deal with the water to mash more than about 12 lbs of grains and get a good sparge so anything heavier I use LME at flame out, which drops the temp a bit, as does dropping the chiller in to sanitize it. Figuring this gets me somewhere to 185* or less, which from what I recall was said to be a more flavor-like addition with a whirlpool around 155* was more of an aroma addition.

I also haven’t seen anyone speak on the staying power of the hop flavor. For something that will sit for a long time would a boil addition be better than a whirlpool? Otherwise figure I’ll do both.

I accidentally dropped the temp too much once and ended up adding whirlpool hops at 120. I loved it so much that’s what I do now.  But truthfully, I’ve pretty much stopped doing whirlpool hops in favor of dry hopping.  For flavor I do a 5-10 min. addition.  But if you age it 5 years, you’re gonna be way down on hop f;avor and aroma no matter what you do.

What temp had you been whirlpooling at previously, and what did you find better with the lower temp whirlpool? Also how long do you whirlpool for?

[denny]

@rodwha

@denny

@rodwha

Think I’ll run with your suggestion and try all Chinook.

I haven’t seen anyone speak on time additions. I read that people generally seem to start their chiller and get the temp down before doing a whirlpool. I haven’t done this. As my pot only handles about 7 gals topped up I can’t deal with the water to mash more than about 12 lbs of grains and get a good sparge so anything heavier I use LME at flame out, which drops the temp a bit, as does dropping the chiller in to sanitize it. Figuring this gets me somewhere to 185* or less, which from what I recall was said to be a more flavor-like addition with a whirlpool around 155* was more of an aroma addition.

I also haven’t seen anyone speak on the staying power of the hop flavor. For something that will sit for a long time would a boil addition be better than a whirlpool? Otherwise figure I’ll do both.

I accidentally dropped the temp too much once and ended up adding whirlpool hops at 120. I loved it so much that’s what I do now.  But truthfully, I’ve pretty much stopped doing whirlpool hops in favor of dry hopping.  For flavor I do a 5-10 min. addition.  But if you age it 5 years, you’re gonna be way down on hop f;avor and aroma no matter what you do.

What temp had you been whirlpooling at previously, and what did you find better with the lower temp whirlpool? Also how long do you whirlpool for?

Originally 170-180F.  But my Jaded Hydra is so fast that I didn’t get them in soon enough enough once.  Lower temp meant less bitterness extracted and more flavor/aroma.  Whirlpooled about 20 min. or so.  But like I said, I’ve pretty much stopped doing that gone back to dry hopping.

[rodwha]

@denny

@rodwha

@denny

@rodwha

Think I’ll run with your suggestion and try all Chinook.

I haven’t seen anyone speak on time additions. I read that people generally seem to start their chiller and get the temp down before doing a whirlpool. I haven’t done this. As my pot only handles about 7 gals topped up I can’t deal with the water to mash more than about 12 lbs of grains and get a good sparge so anything heavier I use LME at flame out, which drops the temp a bit, as does dropping the chiller in to sanitize it. Figuring this gets me somewhere to 185* or less, which from what I recall was said to be a more flavor-like addition with a whirlpool around 155* was more of an aroma addition.

I also haven’t seen anyone speak on the staying power of the hop flavor. For something that will sit for a long time would a boil addition be better than a whirlpool? Otherwise figure I’ll do both.

I accidentally dropped the temp too much once and ended up adding whirlpool hops at 120. I loved it so much that’s what I do now.  But truthfully, I’ve pretty much stopped doing whirlpool hops in favor of dry hopping.  For flavor I do a 5-10 min. addition.  But if you age it 5 years, you’re gonna be way down on hop f;avor and aroma no matter what you do.

What temp had you been whirlpooling at previously, and what did you find better with the lower temp whirlpool? Also how long do you whirlpool for?

Originally 170-180F.  But my Jaded Hydra is so fast that I didn’t get them in soon enough enough once.  Lower temp meant less bitterness extracted and more flavor/aroma.  Whirlpooled about 20 min. or so.  But like I said, I’ve pretty much stopped doing that gone back to dry hopping.

So you feel you get more flavor from a dry hop than a whirlpool at any temp?

The one thing would be that the dry hop addition fades much quicker, no?

[denny]

@rodwha

So you feel you get more flavor from a dry hop than a whirlpool at any temp?

The one thing would be that the dry hop addition fades much quicker, no?

Yeah, I think I get more flavor/aroma from dry hopping.  I don’t think it fades any more quickly than a whirlpool addition.  Haven’t made a BW in a long time, but ikf I make another one I’ll try cryo hops in it to see if they bump things up.

[rodwha]

So might I be better off skipping the whirlpool and using those hops in the boil instead? My understanding is hops used in the dry hop will have faded significantly in just a few months, and so I guess it would be gone by 9-12 months.

[rodwha]

And this hop talk is interesting as I’m working up 4 IPA test batches to test the hop contribution. Figured I’d test 21 mins against 14 and 7 and a whirlpool. Maybe I should snatch one and try it as a dry hop instead, though the IBUs would be insignificant for an IPA. Oh, and this is comparing the same volume of hops each time.

[denny]

@rodwha

So might I be better off skipping the whirlpool and using those hops in the boil instead? My understanding is hops used in the dry hop will have faded significantly in just a few months, and so I guess it would be gone by 9-12 months.

Whirlpool hops will also fade significantly in that time frame

[rodwha]

Dropped the whirlpool and moved the hops to the boil but dropped it to 14 mins so as not to go over 100 IBUs.

[hopfenundmalz]

@denny

@rodwha

So you are after a sharper bitterness? Hmmm… wondering if that might be more appropriate here.

Anyone try an all Chinook barleywine? I was helped with trying to make an Arrogant Bastard clone using nothing but it, which didn’t come out all that similar. Been many, many moons since then so I don’t recall what I thought.

Looking back I see my bittering was at 90 mins and I felt the hop flavors weren’t strong enough.

Yep.  If it’s supposed to have a firm bitterness, that’s what I want and I use Chinook.  Not only BW, but IPA also.  Chinook also makes a killer finishing hop.  I tried some MI grown Chinook that was outstanding for finishing.  Remember, terroir matters!

Might have to send you some more?

[denny]

@hopfenundmalz

@denny

@rodwha

So you are after a sharper bitterness? Hmmm… wondering if that might be more appropriate here.

Anyone try an all Chinook barleywine? I was helped with trying to make an Arrogant Bastard clone using nothing but it, which didn’t come out all that similar. Been many, many moons since then so I don’t recall what I thought.

Looking back I see my bittering was at 90 mins and I felt the hop flavors weren’t strong enough.

Yep.  If it’s supposed to have a firm bitterness, that’s what I want and I use Chinook.  Not only BW, but IPA also.  Chinook also makes a killer finishing hop.  I tried some MI grown Chinook that was outstanding for finishing.  Remember, terroir matters!

Might have to send you some more?

I wouldn’t say no!