I think I’m gonna do a quadrupel kinda thing for my 400th batch, 2 batches away. I’ll have a slurry of WY3787 from the Patersbier I’m making this weekend. Other than that, I’ll use a bunch of Best pils malt and 1.5 lb. (liquid weight) of D2 that I’ve got around. I’ll check some local markets for other exotic sugars, too. I’ve got a small (4 gr.?) package of grains of paradise I was thinking of using, and maybe some coriander. What do you all think so far? Any other ideas or suggestions?
It’s funny you mention this Denny. I recently purchased a tube of WLP530 that I’m planning to use for a BPA and then use the slurry from that for a Belgian Quad.
I am planning to use some Belgian Cany Syrup…maybe some D2. I like your idea of Grains of Paradise. Maybe a small addition of Special B. I’m not sure of the base malt yet. Probably a blend of Pils/Munich… :-\
I’ll also be interested in seeing what kind of input you’ll get here.
Definitely a long aging process. Probably a year in the glass.
I like the idea of some Special B and Munich. Maybe some CaraMunich. The issue I keep running into is that other than the yeast, it starts sounding like Rochefort. Not that that’s a bad thing, but I’m trying to differentiate it somehow.
Except for the spices, what you have sounds like Westvleteren 12.
Munich, Special B and CaraMunich are all dubbel-like flavors. If you want to make a bigger dubbel, try that. Try dark Munich.
If you want to keep it more Barleywine-like (Scaldis/Bush), use more sugar and some CaraVienne perhaps. See what I wrote on that for the Barleywine article in Zymurgy.
Can you describe the target profile you’re seeking? You have a good base, but it depends on what direction you want to go. Color, flavors, attenuation, etc. are what will differentiate it based on what you add next.
I wanted to try this recipe for a while. Lots of sugars but also much more malt backbone than I’ve done before in a quad.
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?p=680960#p680960
I’ve also messed with fermentation temperature a bit. My last quad with that yeast was pitched at 68 but fermented up to 80+ degrees.
Gordon, I appreciate the advice and guidance. Part of the problem is that I haven’t settled on what my “taste imagination” is telling me this beer wants to be. I guess the key component is drinkability, with maybe some slight chocolate/rummy/raisiny notes. I think that’s why I keep conceptualizing it in terms of Rochefort. I do love the Scaldis/Bush and Westvleteren, so now you’ve got me thinking more in that direction. Being that this is a “special” beer, I’m shooting for something in the 10-12% ABV area. I figure I’ve got about a month before I brew it, so it’d be great to continue this dialog with everyone and see what kind of ideas come up.
Narvin, thanks for the link to the St. Bernardus recipe from Kris. Some interesting ideas there, too.
Any of those three ideas would be good. Just don’t try to do them all at once.
Aw, where’s yer sense of adventure? 
Don’t worry, I’ve come up with enough muddled recipes to know better than that! I figure that I need to put all the skill and craft I’ve learned from the previous 399 batches into this. If I dickchimp #400, I may never recover from the trauma!
Having just cracked open my 2009 bottle of Westvleteren 12 to celebrate passing the bar, the flavor of that beer is fairly fresh in my mind. I have to say… not any better than Rochefort 10 or St. Bernardus 12. In fact, I had a St. Bernardus 12 right after my Westy, and found it slightly larger in body (which I liked). If it were my tastebuds, I would go with pils, some munich, a little caravienne, some special B, and then D2 - like a bigger dubbel. I guess it would be something in between Rochefort 10 and Westmalle Dubbel, but that doesn’t sound like a bad thing to me.
That’s the direction I’m heading at this point. I just found some coriander seed and GOP laying around and I’m trying to decide if a bit will go in. Still got a couple weeks til I have to finalize the recipe.
Maybe try making your own candi sugar? I did that once for a christmas beer (following Mosher’s directions in RB) and was very happy with the way it turned out.
What a coincidence, I have a pack of 3787 that’s getting old and planned on making a Patersbier and then using the cake for a St Bernardus 12-ish beer (it won’t be my 400th batch though…more like 140-something :-[). That’s the only quad I’ve ever tasted though.
I don’t have any D2 but do have some caramelized syrup I made ~2 years ago. I had planned on keeping it real simple; just Pils, a little wheat, decent amount of Special B, and sugar/syrup. I’m sure it’s because I’m not that experienced but when I’ve made big, dark Belgians in the past using a mix of caramel malts, by the time I’ve hit my color it just doesn’t have those deep dark flavors I’m after (and had too much stone fruit/berry flavors). So I was just going to use only Special B. I might add some Aromatic (and there I go, already adding stuff!).
Nothing to add really Denny…but I’ll be watching to get some ideas myself.
I just ordered some dark syrup samples so I’m gonna see what they look like when they arrive and decide which and how much to use. Maybe supplement with some demarara sugar. Mainly pils malt, maybe a touch of Munich, maybe some coriander or GOP. Maybe Hallertauer for bitteriong and and a bit of Strisselspalt for finishing. I’ve got a couple weeks or so til I brew it so I’m still cogitating. When I get close to a final recipe, I’ll post it here for comments.
OK, here’s the first go…no Munich in here, but I may change that. Any comments?
#400 Batch 400
A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 20.50
Anticipated OG: 1.102 Plato: 24.13
Anticipated SRM: 29.6
Anticipated IBU: 26.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 70 Minutes
Pre-Boil Amounts
Evaporation Rate: 1.50 Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.25 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.077 SG 18.69 Plato
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
87.8 18.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
9.8 2.00 lbs. D-180 1.032 180
2.4 0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 80 France 1.034 80
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
2.50 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 3.90 26.1 60 min.
1.00 oz. Strisselspalt 2007 Pellet 2.50 0.0 0 min.
Extras
Amount Name Type Time
0.20 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil)
0.03 Oz Grains of Paradise Spice 5 Days(boil)
Yeast
WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity
Mash Schedule
Mash Name:
Total Grain Lbs: 18.50
Total Water Qts: 27.75 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 6.94 - Before Additional Infusions
Tun Thermal Mass: 0.13
Grain Temp: 65.00 F
Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
sacc 0 90 147 147 Infuse 161 27.75 1.50
Total Water Qts: 27.75 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 6.94 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 8.42 - After Additional Infusions
All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.
gotta have some munich in there to really throw some deeper malt tones on top of the pilsner. about 10% I’d say, but what do I know?
just my lowly opinion.
I’d nix the spices too, but again, that’s just me.
Nice. Should be very drinkable ( i volunteer ;))
I have not used 3787 before but have used WLP530 in tripels pitching low and letting free rise to whatever. WY3711 will dry it out with a spice character, may or may not be the profile you want.
I know WY3522 will should attenuate well with light fruit and tart from the yeast. I don.'t know if you have used D-180 before. I have used D-160 a while ago and remember it to be dark fruit an chocolate with almost a “metallic” profile, hard to describe.
Never quite sure if a quad is “just” a barleywine with a belgian yeast but I do know that the hgh alcohol will generate its own flavors.
-Cheers and let us know how it works
recipe looks good to me. I like that you aren’t throwing in the “obligatory” Special B.
Looks good to me Denny, although I don’t think I would boil the grains of paradise for 5 days.
I’d use the old coriander and grains of paradise for cooking and get yourself some nice fresh spices, why ruin a special brew by skimping on ingredients?
I think both of those are good ideas. I’m gonna take another run at the recipe.