That first exbeeriment - it looks like the warm dry-hopped batch underwent one more keg-to-keg transfer which will add a bit of 02 no matter how careful you are. May have contributed to the even result.
I’ve been liking dry hopping while some fermentation is still on to keep the hops circulating and O2 out. Usually I top crop my yeast a couple of days in then add the hops. Like theDarkSide said if I don’t feel I went hard enough I’ll add some more hops into the serving keg.
I’ve been racking my brain a lot about this lately. Freshly armed with a DO meter I’ve noticed how much more oxygen get’s into beer served in a C02 purged serving keg as supposed to a spunded keg. With lagers this is an easy thing to control by transferring into the lagering/serving keg with some extract left, spunding, lagering, and serving. With how fast ale fermentations go and dry hopping times it’s tough.
I think I’m going to try this method:
Dry hop in the keg as fermentation is subsiding and the yeast has been cropped.
Keg-to-Keg transfer into a receiving keg after FG has been reached with a fresh canister of dry hops and krausen awaiting.
Let it finish out at room temperature for a couple days then crash it down.
Dump the first couple pints (should be hop and yeast residue) then serve.
It’s tough. Oxygen kills hop aroma. I once had a growler of tired hands hop hands (pure raw hop juice when fresh) taste like a zero dry hopped english ale after sitting a little too long. Same thing with HFS Edward. If you keep the O2 out of the serving keg it should taste fresh a hell of a lot longer. But the only way to reliably seem to do that is to have active yeast in it.
I fill my kegs to the brim with sanitizer and push that out with CO2 before jumping or racking the beer in. seems to limit O2, but I get what you are saying.
Spunding is moving the beer to the keg with some amount of fermentation left to go. Then you connect a spunding valvle (I just bought one but have not used it yet) to allow the pressure to escape but the valve allows you to dial in the amount of carbonation you want to retain in the beer. So it’s a way to naturally carbonate and you can also assume that it’s a great way to keep O2 out of the beer at the same time. Personally I find the “dialing in of the carb” a little intimidating but if you ended up low on carb, I could see topping it off with CO2 from a tank to make up the difference.
The “experts” are all over the map on dry hop temp. Many say room temp, yet a year or so ago someome posted info here from S.S. Steiner that 35F was the perfect dry hop temp.
I usually keg hop instead of dry hopping. I use fine mesh nylon bags which I dip in Starsan and wring out before putting the hops in and putting it in the keg. I transfer the beer into the keg at fermentation temperature. The keg has been effectively purged since I push the sanitizer out via CO2, so the beer just floats the hop bag up as it fills. I’ll then do a quick CO2 purge for the top pressure, and put it in my aging fridge under pressure (typically 12 psi). So, basically it’s at the ~65F temp briefly until it drops to aging temp in the 40s overnight.
Yup, with a lager you can transfer with 1p or so of extract left into a fresh keg, seal it up, and hook on the pressure relieve valve. It has a few benefits - it saves time and money by eliminating the need to force carb with C02, the transfer seems to rouse it up and results in higher attenuation, and the big one is your serving keg will have less oxygen.
I’ve done the whole fill the serving keg with sanitizer, push it out, purge and purge again, then close transfer thing as well but my DO meter showed it’s not as good. Actually took some readings last night. A bottle conditioned beer had the lowest oxygen, my spunded lager had a bit more (imagine more headspace and the transfer, working on my processes), and the c02 purged/racked into serving keg after FG was reached beer had significantly more 02. Purging with C02 seems to be materially not as effective as active yeast. I just got the meter so I’m looking forward to taking more readings.
We’ve all noticed that drop off in dry hop aroma - in theory this should be significantly reduced with less oxygen in the serving keg. I guess it’s why canned and oxygen obsessed Heady Topper and bottle conditioned Sierra Nevada last so much longer than filtered and bottled beer.
I think mine was $32 or something. It connects to one port on your keg and has an adjustable gauge on it which may read in PSI or “BAR”. I seem to remember someone telling me to set the spunding valve to “8 bar”.
Maybe. I like to get the beer off the yeast before dry hopping, so that wouldn’t be possible.
I think people are on a snipe hunt looking for the “best way”. There are a number of ways that work well. They each produce slightly different results. You need to try different methods and see what you like. You may even decide that you like different methods for different beers.
I had the same thought about dry hopping a spunded beer - I dry hop clear, yeast free beer, too. And there’s just no substitute for trying different methods for yourself.
HoosierBrew - Yea, this seems to be a debate among IPA brewers. As far as I understand it, the modern North East IPA brewers are hopping during the end of fermentation, but I could be mistaken. Pros are seen as less oxygen and more natural rousing. Sounds like a lot of people are doing both. Hop at end of ferment then hop again after. Nothing like 10oz of dry hops to kill a budget haha.
Denny - I’m definitely on a quest for the best way but I recognize that’s not what the hobby is about for everyone. I have a buddy who’s been brewing for some years and pays 0 attention to pH, mash acidification, fermentation temperature, or oxygen and that’s fine! I think the level of detail and precision the GermanBrewing team is encouraging is awesome as well. It’s all about enjoying the hobby and your beer. To some people that’s keeping it as simple as possible and having fun. To other’s the hobby becomes more engaging when you’re constantly learning and improving.
Some things are subjective in brewing. Other’s are quantifiable. You can measure pH, gravity, color, bitterness, dissolved oxygen, etc. We know that oxygen is bad for dry hops. All you have to do is let a growler of IPA sit a couple of days too long to prove that. If we can quantify that the standard homebrewing method of: Finish Fermentation in the carboy, cold crash & gel, then transfer into a serving keg is introducing a decent but of O2, even when you’re careful, why not brainstorm solutions?
Man I really don’t feel like I have ever experienced the deleterious effects of O2 pickup on any of my jumped beers. I’m sure that your methods are much better and reduce the O2 pickup, but i also try to drink my IPAs long before they would show oxidative signs. I applaud your efforts, but until I start to consistently have oxidation issues, I’ll leave that solution alone.